Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 02:34:19 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [Ux2bs_Archive] No. 71 ************************************************** Friday 07 February 2003 Number 71 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: Getting started : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de 2 Re: REGEX - please test : Sebastian Wittmeier (ShadoW)" 3 Re: REGEX - please test : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de 4 Re: Getting started : Sebastian Wittmeier (ShadoW)" 5 Re: Getting started : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de 6 Re: Getting started : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de 7 Re: Getting started : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de 8 Re: Getting started : Sebastian Wittmeier (ShadoW)" 9 Re: Building WGET : Andreas Buening 10 Re: EMX v. P2 headers conflict ? : Andreas Buening 11 Re: REGEX - please test : Andreas Buening 12 Re: REGEX - please test : Andreas Buening 13 Discovering Automake : John Poltorak 14 Re: REGEX - please test : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de 15 Re: REGEX - please test : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de 16 Re: Getting started : John Poltorak 17 Re: Getting started : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:01:51 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: Getting started Hi, I just got around to trying an update ... > wget ftp://unixos2: at 213.152.37.92/pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/ux2_bootstrap.cmd Can anybody explain the following output? [G:\unixos2]wget --proxy=off ftp://unixos2: at 213.152.37.92/pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/ux2_bootstrap.cmd --23:53:25-- ftp://unixos2: at 213.152.37.92:21/pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/ux2_bootstrap.cmd => `ux2_bootstrap.cmd' Connecting to 213.152.37.92:21... connected! Logging in as unixos2 ... Logged in! ==> TYPE I ... done. ==> CWD pub/unixos2/build_system/lib ... done. ==> PORT ... done. ==> RETR ux2_bootstrap.cmd ... And here, nothing at all happens any more... tracerte finds the box just fine (213-152-37-92.dsl.eclipse.net.uk), 14 hops away from me, but wget does just nothing, same trouble as "always" (i.e. the first time) :-( No wait, five minute later is adding "... done." to the line above (no file created over here though), and then there's apparently a standstill again. I guess, I'll just have to give it one more hour to actually do something... Regards, Stefan _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 00:06:45 +0100 (CET) From: "Sebastian Wittmeier (ShadoW)" Subject: Re: REGEX - please test On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 22:55:28 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: >Does that also apply for intl, z, crypto, ssl, jpeg, png, tiff dlls? >You need some consistency here. It would be no bad idea to link them all into cExt. But I fear it breaks compatibility to make files. Sebastian _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:08:24 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: REGEX - please test Hi, > Does that also apply for intl, z, crypto, ssl, jpeg, png, tiff dlls? I'd suggest to look at what linux distributions do: put "intl", "regex" and maybe some others (which I currently don't remember) into one "standard" DLL/library (no software package expects to be required to add -lintl or -lregex to the compiler flags) and have z, crypto and the others as separate libraries since every software uses -lz , -lcrypto, -lssl and so on, if it want's to use those. BTW, do we need a one-to-one correspondence between import libraries and DLLs ore can one import library take symbols from different DLLs? Or can several import librarys take different symbols from just one DLL? I'm lost.. Regards, Stefan _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 00:11:13 +0100 (CET) From: "Sebastian Wittmeier (ShadoW)" Subject: Re: Getting started On Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:01:51 +0100, Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: >And here, nothing at all happens any more... > >tracerte finds the box just fine (213-152-37-92.dsl.eclipse.net.uk), 14 hops >away from me, but wget does just nothing, same trouble as "always" (i.e. the >first time) :-( Can you manually download the file with ftp.exe? wget has a verbose option. Perhaps its output gives you a clue. Could you try it with curl? It is a download program for single files. Sebastian _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:46:02 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: Getting started > Hi, > > I just got around to trying an update ... > > > wget ftp://unixos2: at 213.152.37.92/pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/ux2_bootstrap.cmd > > Can anybody explain the following output? (snipp) Whatever it is, something is going on, by now, I have: [G:\unixos2]wget --proxy=off ftp://unixos2: at 213.152.37.92/pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/ux2_bootstrap.cmd --23:53:25-- ftp://unixos2: at 213.152.37.92:21/pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/ux2_b ootstrap.cmd => `ux2_bootstrap.cmd' Connecting to 213.152.37.92:21... connected! Logging in as unixos2 ... Logged in! ==> TYPE I ... done. ==> CWD pub/unixos2/build_system/lib ... done. ==> PORT ... done. ==> RETR ux2_bootstrap.cmd ... done. accept: No such file or directory Retrying. --00:09:41-- ftp://unixos2: at 213.152.37.92:21/pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/ux2_b ootstrap.cmd (try: 2) => `ux2_bootstrap.cmd' ==> CWD not required. ==> PORT ... Invalid PORT. Retrying. --00:09:41-- ftp://unixos2: at 213.152.37.92:21/pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/ux2_b ootstrap.cmd (try: 3) => `ux2_bootstrap.cmd' Connecting to 213.152.37.92:21... connected! Logging in as unixos2 ... Logged in! ==> TYPE I ... done. ==> CWD pub/unixos2/build_system/lib ... done. ==> PORT ... done. ==> RETR ux2_bootstrap.cmd ... done. But still no "visible" success... Regards, Stefan _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:46:03 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: Getting started Hi, > Can you manually download the file with ftp.exe? Nope, same get of problem. I get to the point where I issue get and that's it. :-( > wget has a verbose option. Perhaps its output gives you a clue. I even tried "--debug" which displays everything that wget receives (much like what I see when using ftp, only faster). Everything looks OK till I just can't get the file... Really strange. Updating from my outdated wget-1.5.1 to 1.7 didn't help either, nor did "wget.exe.ssl" help. Giving up for now, it's apparently hopeless, for whatever reason... Strangely remote login to university and issuing wget there does work... I'm totally lost.. Regards, Stefan _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:56:50 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: Getting started > > Can you manually download the file with ftp.exe? > > Nope, same get of problem. I get to the point where I issue get and ^^^ "sort" or "kind" of course. I'm getting "getty", err confused, by all those "get"'s. Time to get some get, err, rest. ;-) > that's it. :-( Good night, everybody, Stefan _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 8 ==========================** Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 01:01:47 +0100 (CET) From: "Sebastian Wittmeier (ShadoW)" Subject: Re: Getting started On Sat, 8 Feb 2003 00:46:03 +0100, Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: >Strangely remote login to university and issuing wget there does >work... I'm totally lost.. ftp opens data ports, when you issue get. Sound like some ports are not open. How are you connected to the internet? Can you download from other ftp servers? Sebastian _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 9 ==========================** Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 02:42:11 +0100 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: Building WGET Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: [snip] > 2. Add AC_EXEEXT into configure.in "at a suitable place" (looking at > configure.in from working packages might give an idea where that > suitable place is). This tells autoconf to insert a test for the > executable extension into the configure script and store its value > in an internal variable. AC_EXEEXT and AC_OBJEXT are now obsolete, i.e. they're the default. [snip] Bye, Andreas -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 10 ==========================** Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 02:42:23 +0100 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: EMX v. P2 headers conflict ? Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Well, there are three possibilities: > > > 1. "man setmode" > > > 2. "grep setmode /usr/include/* /usr/include/*/*" > > > 3. "nm /usr/lib/*.a | grep setmode" > > > > Interestingly I used the 4th possibility: I wrote a small > > autoconf script that did the job. ;-) > > Well, that burns down to either AC_CHECK_HEADER (i.e. 2) or > AC_CHECK_LIB (i.e. 3), doesn't it? No, as I told it's number 4 (AC_CHECK_FUNC). Bye, Andreas -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 11 ==========================** Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 02:42:35 +0100 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: REGEX - please test Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: > > Hi, > > > Does that also apply for intl, z, crypto, ssl, jpeg, png, tiff dlls? > > I'd suggest to look at what linux distributions do: put "intl", "regex" > and maybe some others (which I currently don't remember) into one "standard" > DLL/library (no software package expects to be required to add -lintl or > -lregex to the compiler flags) and have z, crypto and the others as separate > libraries since every software uses -lz , -lcrypto, -lssl and so on, if it > want's to use those. Why so complicated? If a library has its own package including separate sources, separate docs, separate install routines, separate ChangeLog then let it be a standalone library. If this is not the case, if it has no separate install routines put it into another larger library. intl is an example for the 1st type, regex for the 2nd type. > BTW, do we need a one-to-one correspondence between import libraries and > DLLs ore can one import library take symbols from different DLLs? Or can > several import librarys take different symbols from just one DLL? I'm lost.. To my knowledge there is no correspondence, every function within an import library can refer to a different dll, and every function within a dll can be referred by a different import library. Bye, Andreas -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 12 ==========================** Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 02:42:46 +0100 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: REGEX - please test Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: > > Hi, > > > It seems that Microsoft thinking is becoming all pervasive... > > > > Bloatware is good! > > Hey, I was _not_ taking about RAM usage, just about hard disk space. I guess, John meant generally all kinds of ressources. > And when running 20 applications at the same time, I _won't_ care about > 1 MB more or less memory, that is consumed. And if I'm running only one > out of the relevant applications (not that many, after all), it makes no > difference at all, whether some code is put into a DLL or not. If you run one appl at once it makes no real difference whether the executable size is 5 or 50 KB, but if you run a script that makes real use of those shell tools (let's call it configure) then it _does_ make a difference whether you load 1 or 20 MB per second from your hard disk. And don't tell me about caching, there are some people who still use HPFS with its 2 MB cache. Having a fast CPU, a lot of ram and a huge cache shouldn't be an excuse for bad programming style or waste of ressources. Then you have the windows effect as John said. You have to update your computer every two years so that your applications take the same time. > > That isn't really the point. One of the reasons I like using OS/2, and I'm > > sure others agree, is that it is lean an efficient. > > Sure. but another one of my reasons is that it's cleanly organized. [hunting for dlls] That's a completely different point. Your argument was that it made no difference in speed and you had enough disk space to link several OSs statically. ;-) > Sure, I too want to have regex and lots of other stuff in a DLL, but do we > really need dozens of DLLs, 30K each? One big c.DLL (or unixos2.dll or > cExt.dll or whatever) would be _much_ better, IMHO. But that's going to > need some time and I just don't want to system to get unusable just > because some people are that impatient. Statically linking seems like > a reasonable compromise for a "short" period of time, but that, of course, > is just _my_ personal opinion, others seem to be thinking _vastly_ different. Temporary solutions tend to persist forever. ;-) But really, where is the problem to add those few regex functions to a dll? If we had an agreement to which dll we wanted to add the regex stuff, of course. ;-) I think we'll have to dismiss the idea of having one full time maintainer who does all the library stuff on his own like EM used to do. There are several people on these mailing lists who proposed small libs like passwd.lib that get lost because there is no main libc where they could add their code. Having dozens of small static libraries is also far away from solving this problem. [snip] Bye, Andreas -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 13 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 12:37:37 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Discovering Automake Automake is one of those programs that exists in the GNU Build System but I have never been aware of what it actually does... What it does do is create a Makefile.in from a Makefile.am and the Makefile.in program is subsequently processed by configure to create a Makefile. If you look at Makefile.am in WHICH, for instance:- ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/which/which-2.14.tar.gz you can see just how powerful automake is. It turns a simple parameter file of 37 lines (Makefile.am) into monster Makefile.in of 814 lines. Well at least in theory. The Makefile.in produced when I ran automake (v1.7.2) differred from the original whih had been produced by automake v1.5 so I suspect any differences would be due to new features. What is interesting is that Makefile.am has not reference to EXEEXT, but Makefile.in does. It also has targets which include $(EXEEXT) which is what we really need to be able to create the correct binaries. I'd like to be able to create an Makefile.am file for a really old app like ED:- ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/ed/ed-0.2.tar.gz and see if it can be made to build and install by running:- automake autoconf configure make make install Unfortunately when I tried building WHICH it failed here:- configure: creating ./config.status config.status: creating Makefile config.status: creating maintMakefile config.status: creating tilde/Makefile config.status: creating config.h config.status: executing default-1 commands make Makefile:267: *** missing separator. Stop. Makefile:267: *** missing separator. Stop. if I tried re-building Makefile.in, so maybe there is a bug in Automake... -- John _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 14 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 23:25:18 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: REGEX - please test Hi, > Why so complicated? If a library has its own package including separate > sources, separate docs, separate install routines, separate ChangeLog > then let it be a standalone library. What good is e.g. libintl, if all projects just ignore it or even worse detect the presence of some header and later fail on linking because no Makefile knows about the OS/2 specific problem that -lintl is required? Regards, Stefan _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 15 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 23:25:19 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: REGEX - please test Hi, > But really, where is the problem to add those few regex functions to > a dll? If we had an agreement to which dll we wanted to add the regex > stuff, of course. ;-) No problem at all. I just don't like the idea to put every single function (or every group of a 3 or 4 functions) into its own DLL. That's why I don't like regex.dll. > Having dozens of small static libraries > is also far away from solving this problem. Sure, but that at least is only a problem for developpers, not for the poor users. With static libs, you spare them at least the DLL hunting (and all problems caused by incompatible builds of the same DLL...). Regards, Stefan _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 16 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 23:42:42 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: Getting started On Sat, Feb 08, 2003 at 11:52:07PM +0100, Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: > Hi, > > > How are you connected to the internet? > > DSL connection by T-Online. > > > Can you download from other ftp servers? > > No problem with e.g. ftp.leo.org. > > I just decided to finally install eCS 1.0 and > the much newer TCP/IP on my machine, but it makes > no difference either. > > One strange thing I noticed when doing > [G:\UnixOS2] ftp 213.152.37.92 > is that I automatically get the following lines: > > (Some greeting message...) > > Have a really lovely day! > 230 User unixos2 logged-in > bina > 200 Command okay > get /pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/rsync.exe > 200 Command okay > 150 Preparing to transfer binary file > > i.e. it automatically starts to transfer some file > and somehow gets problems while doing that. > It's hanging after the "get" line for some minutes > and now is hanging after that > "150 Preparing to transfer binary file" > for quite some time already... Stefan, Here is ux2_bootstrap.cmd:- at echo off echo: echo: Please set variables to suit your own environment before echo: running this script for the first time. echo: set bldrt=c: set uxrt=c: set osrt=c: echo: * osrt is where OS/2 boots from. echo: echo: - currently %osrt% echo: echo: * bldrt is where the build environment will reside. echo: echo: - currently %bldrt% echo: echo: * uxrt is where the Unix-like environment will be installed. echo: echo: - currently %uxrt% echo: echo: If these variables are not set correctly, press ctrl-break otherwise echo: press any other key to install the UnixOS/2 baseline build echo: which should include building Perl 5.8.0. This may take a couple echo: of hours... echo: pause set bld_home=unixos2 set host=powerusersbbs.net echo open 213.152.37.92 >ux2_ftp echo user unixos2 "" >>ux2_ftp echo bina >>ux2_ftp echo get /pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/rsync.exe >>ux2_ftp echo bye >>ux2_ftp echo:>>ux2_ftp type ux2_ftp | ftp -nv rsync -av %host%::build %bldrt%/%bld_home% %bldrt% cd \%bld_home%\lib ux2_inst %1 %2 %3 %4 %5 %6 %7 %8 %9 If you already have RSYNC somewhere, then put it on your path and comment out the line above beginning with 'type', and it should be able to proceed normally. > Regards, > Stefan > > -- John _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs **= Email 17 ==========================** Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2003 23:52:07 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: Getting started Hi, > How are you connected to the internet? DSL connection by T-Online. > Can you download from other ftp servers? No problem with e.g. ftp.leo.org. I just decided to finally install eCS 1.0 and the much newer TCP/IP on my machine, but it makes no difference either. One strange thing I noticed when doing [G:\UnixOS2] ftp 213.152.37.92 is that I automatically get the following lines: (Some greeting message...) Have a really lovely day! 230 User unixos2 logged-in bina 200 Command okay get /pub/unixos2/build_system/lib/rsync.exe 200 Command okay 150 Preparing to transfer binary file i.e. it automatically starts to transfer some file and somehow gets problems while doing that. It's hanging after the "get" line for some minutes and now is hanging after that "150 Preparing to transfer binary file" for quite some time already... Regards, Stefan _______________________________________________ UX2BS mailing list UX2BS at powerusersbbs.net http://powerusersbbs.net/mailman/listinfo/ux2bs