Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 00:04:22 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [UnixOS2_Archive] No. 660 ************************************************** Sunday 04 December 2005 Number 660 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: Build notes for Apache v2 : Paul Smedley 2 Re: Zope : Christian Hennecke" 3 Re: Zope : John Poltorak 4 Re: Zope : Christian Hennecke" 5 Re: Zope : John Poltorak 6 Re: Zope : Bill Nicholls 7 Re: Zope : John Poltorak 8 Re: DosLoadModule problem : Steven Levine" 9 Re: Zope : Bill Nicholls 10 Re: Zope : Andrew MacIntyre 11 Re: Zope : Bill Nicholls 12 Re: DosLoadModule problem : Dave Yeo" 13 Re: ZLIB : Dave Yeo" 14 Re: DosLoadModule problem : Paul Smedley 15 Re: DosLoadModule problem : Steven Levine" 16 Re: Zope : John Poltorak 17 Re: Build notes for Apache v2 : John Poltorak 18 Re: DosLoadModule problem : Paul Smedley 19 Re: DosLoadModule problem : Stefan.Neis at t-online.de **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 23:25:15 +1030 From: Paul Smedley Subject: Re: Build notes for Apache v2 Hi John, John Poltorak wrote: > If anyone has any build notes for Apache v2, I'd appreciate a copy of > them. I only have notes for use with Innotek GCC - not EMX. If you'd like a copy - I also need to clean them up a bit as libc 0.6 GA tidied up a few things :) Cheers, Paul. **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 14:00:54 +0100 (CET) From: "Christian Hennecke" Subject: Re: Zope On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 09:34:42 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: >Is anyone using Zope on OS/2? The Warpstock Europe 2005 web site was done with Zope and Plone. >Is anyone else interested in using Zope? I am - as a CMS. However, it seems all very complicated to me compared to other solutions. Christian Hennecke **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 13:36:32 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: Zope On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 02:00:54PM +0100, Christian Hennecke wrote: > On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 09:34:42 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: > > >Is anyone using Zope on OS/2? > > The Warpstock Europe 2005 web site was done with Zope and Plone. > > >Is anyone else interested in using Zope? > > I am - as a CMS. However, it seems all very complicated to me compared > to other solutions. It is very complicated, although you should see it as a challenge :-) I've just managed to get v2.8.4 up and running today. > Christian Hennecke -- John **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 15:15:34 +0100 (CET) From: "Christian Hennecke" Subject: Re: Zope On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 13:36:32 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: >> >Is anyone using Zope on OS/2? >> >> The Warpstock Europe 2005 web site was done with Zope and Plone. >> >> >Is anyone else interested in using Zope? >> >> I am - as a CMS. However, it seems all very complicated to me compared >> to other solutions. > >It is very complicated, although you should see it as a challenge :-) Well, I'm doing web design for a living and so there is a certain "return of investment" threshold. Currently, things like Joomla or Typo3 seem more interesting from a business view point. Also, Typo 3 is documented *way* better. I know that Zope can be more that just a CMS but you have to look at what your customers want. >I've just managed to get v2.8.4 up and running today. Good! I remember that Ted Sikora once created a WarpIN package for Zope. Maybe someone could update that and make getting started easier. Christian Hennecke **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 15:16:00 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: Zope On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 03:15:34PM +0100, Christian Hennecke wrote: > >> >Is anyone else interested in using Zope? > >> > >> I am - as a CMS. However, it seems all very complicated to me compared > >> to other solutions. > > > >It is very complicated, although you should see it as a challenge :-) > > Well, I'm doing web design for a living and so there is a certain > "return of investment" threshold. Currently, things like Joomla or > Typo3 seem more interesting from a business view point. Also, Typo 3 is > documented *way* better. I know that Zope can be more that just a CMS > but you have to look at what your customers want. Which of these do you prefer? I take it they are all PHP based... > >I've just managed to get v2.8.4 up and running today. > > Good! I remember that Ted Sikora once created a WarpIN package for > Zope. Maybe someone could update that and make getting started easier. That is unlikely to happen for some time. I found it difficult to get Ted's package to work originally because of the hardcoded paths. It actually much more straightforward to build from source - no patches need to be applied. Having said that, I still haven't managed to make it handle sockets so it is impossible to manage it properly via the management interface - the ability to restart it isn't there, all you can do is a shutdown. I could really do with some input from a 'socket expert' on how to get this working. > Christian Hennecke > -- John **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:55:06 -0800 From: Bill Nicholls Subject: Re: Zope Interesting coincidence. I've just been studying Zope3, now available in 3.1.0 build. From my initial study of the documentation, the design is about 200% better, and the instructions appear easy to follow. Zope2 was known for its complexity, and Zope3 was planned to clean a lot of that up. From a first look I'd say they succeeded. I've been looking at various CMS programs for myself and a colleague - he hosts a lot of sites, but is fed up with the work building each one because little or no work can be reused. I'm of the same opinion - my site is too static and takes a lot of work to just add one page, or Ghu forbid, add a new section with content. Everything is done manually. I've been using Quanta Plus, but the docs leave too much out for using the advanced features. We both want to be able to build multiple sites and reuse as much of the core structure, but change the appearance easily. I'm also looking at Mason-CM and a few others like Aquarium, Skunk Web, Snakelets and Yaws, but except for Aquarium, they don't have the structure for multiple sites sharing some capabilities. Having said all of that, I was impressed with what could be done with the earlier Zope2, but repelled with the learning curve. That seems to have changed with Zope3. BTW, we have also installed Open ACS, very powerful but way too much work for sites we envision. I'm looking for input from people who have experience in this mid-range class of web sites, involving some DB work as content store and multiple sites running under one general HTTP server system. TIA, BillN John Poltorak wrote: >On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 03:15:34PM +0100, Christian Hennecke wrote: > > > >>>>>Is anyone else interested in using Zope? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>I am - as a CMS. However, it seems all very complicated to me compared >>>>to other solutions. >>>> >>>> >>>It is very complicated, although you should see it as a challenge :-) >>> >>> >>Well, I'm doing web design for a living and so there is a certain >>"return of investment" threshold. Currently, things like Joomla or >>Typo3 seem more interesting from a business view point. Also, Typo 3 is >>documented *way* better. I know that Zope can be more that just a CMS >>but you have to look at what your customers want. >> >> > >Which of these do you prefer? I take it they are all PHP based... > > > >>>I've just managed to get v2.8.4 up and running today. >>> >>> >>Good! I remember that Ted Sikora once created a WarpIN package for >>Zope. Maybe someone could update that and make getting started easier. >> >> > >That is unlikely to happen for some time. I found it difficult to get >Ted's package to work originally because of the hardcoded paths. It >actually much more straightforward to build from source - no patches need >to be applied. Having said that, I still haven't managed to make it handle >sockets so it is impossible to manage it properly via the management >interface - the ability to restart it isn't there, all you can do is a >shutdown. I could really do with some input from a 'socket expert' on how >to get this working. > > > >>Christian Hennecke >> >> >> > > > **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 19:14:58 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: Zope On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 09:55:06AM -0800, Bill Nicholls wrote: > Interesting coincidence. I've just been studying Zope3, now available in > 3.1.0 build. From my initial study of the documentation, the design is > about 200% better, and the instructions appear easy to follow. > > Zope2 was known for its complexity, and Zope3 was planned to clean a lot > of that up. From a first look I'd say they succeeded. Unfortunately, I've not been able to get Zope3 built on OS/2. Having spent many tortuous hours trying to work out how Zope2 works, it sounds like Zope3 must be much simpler. How have you been studying Zope3? > TIA, > BillN -- John **= Email 8 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 11:51:17 -0800 From: "Steven Levine" Subject: Re: DosLoadModule problem In <439186A9.3010305 at smedley.info>, on 12/03/05 at 10:21 PM, Paul Smedley said: >DosLoadModule works fine the first time, but on the second call returns >a return code of 87 - ie incorrect parameter. I dimly recall getting this error when a secondary DLL failed to load. This means the problem may not be within access.dll, per se. >For the life of me I can't work out why it works OK the first time and >not the second. Does all DLLs exhibit the problem or is the failure just this one specific DLL? Did you build the module DLL yourself or are you using one built for EMX? Have you tried with just one module installed in ./modules? >The Apache2 errorlog states: >Cannot load E:/apache2/modules/access.dll into server: The parameter is >incorrect. ((\xfb\t) What's the ((\xfb\t) mean? I don't have a current copy of the source handy and the lxr search at lxr.webperf.org seems to be dead since the switch to subversion Steven -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Steven Levine" MR2/ICE 2.67 #10183 Warp4.something/14.100c_W4 www.scoug.com irc.fyrelizard.com #scoug (Wed 7pm PST) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 9 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 13:08:30 -0800 From: Bill Nicholls Subject: Re: Zope I spent some time looking at the little doc on structure, and a lot more on reading the draft documentation. So my results are preliminary but probably in the right ballpark. Since I have a number of OSs at my place, I can use FreeBSD or Suse Linux to host Z3. I tend to use eCS and FreeBSD for most of my critical work because of their stability and (relative) immunity to viruses and keyloggers. W2K runs mostly my TV recording, and CPDN. BillN John Poltrack wrote: > Unfortunately, I've not been able to get Zope3 built on OS/2. > > Having spent many tortuous hours trying to work out how Zope2 works, it > sounds like Zope3 must be much simpler. > > How have you been studying Zope3? **= Email 10 ==========================** Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 09:28:05 +1000 From: Andrew MacIntyre Subject: Re: Zope John Poltorak wrote: >>>I've just managed to get v2.8.4 up and running today. {...} > Having said that, I still haven't managed to make it handle > sockets so it is impossible to manage it properly via the management > interface - the ability to restart it isn't there, all you can do is a > shutdown. I could really do with some input from a 'socket expert' on how > to get this working. One thing to remember about unix domain sockets on OS/2 is that the "path" must be prefixed with \socket\ ('\\socket\\' in Python allowing of escapes). Forward slashes for this prefix don't cut it. Any more info you can supply? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew I MacIntyre "These thoughts are mine alone..." E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370 andymac at pcug.org.au (alt) | Belconnen ACT 2616 Web: http://www.andymac.org/ | Australia **= Email 11 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 17:23:52 -0800 From: Bill Nicholls Subject: Re: Zope I haven't done any more study yet, still have to move 4 systems into my office and this has been delayed by 2 days of sickness. So I won't have any more info for about a week. BillN > John Poltorak wrote: > >>>> I've just managed to get v2.8.4 up and running today. > > > {...} > >> Having said that, I still haven't managed to make it handle sockets so it is impossible to manage it properly via the management interface - the ability to restart it isn't there, all you can do is a shutdown. I could really do with some input from a 'socket expert' on how to get this working. > > > One thing to remember about unix domain sockets on OS/2 is that the > "path" must be prefixed with \socket\ ('\\socket\\' in Python allowing of > escapes). > > Forward slashes for this prefix don't cut it. > > Any more info you can supply? **= Email 12 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:06:30 -0800 From: "Dave Yeo" Subject: Re: DosLoadModule problem On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 22:21:05 +1030, Paul Smedley wrote: >I'm currently grappling with loading Apache2 modules dynamically. Wonder how hard it would be to change over to loading ELF modules? This is the way XFree86 dynamicaly loads modules Dave **= Email 13 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:05:07 -0800 From: "Dave Yeo" Subject: Re: ZLIB --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.IQY2SJ138764=_=_=_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 12:09:31 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: > > >Has anyone built the latest ZLIB on OS/2? Built it yesterday with GCC 3.3.5 (and just now with GCC 2.8.1). I'll include the makefile and def files, rename whichever you need to zos2.def. 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Well the only DLLs referenced my the module dlls are httpd.dll which is present... >> For the life of me I can't work out why it works OK the first time and >> not the second. > > Does all DLLs exhibit the problem or is the failure just this one specific > DLL? Did you build the module DLL yourself or are you using one built for > EMX? Have you tried with just one module installed in ./modules? It seems to be all module DLLs. These are all built myself with libc. Am trying a build now with all modules built in except ssl - will then see if modssl loads. >> The Apache2 errorlog states: >> Cannot load E:/apache2/modules/access.dll into server: The parameter is >> incorrect. ((\xfb\t) > > What's the ((\xfb\t) mean? I don't have a current copy of the source > handy and the lxr search at lxr.webperf.org seems to be dead since the > switch to subversion I don't know what ((\xfb\t) means - there's a few references to \xfb in the source but not the full string above.... Cheers, Paul. **= Email 15 ==========================** Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 23:41:35 -0800 From: "Steven Levine" Subject: Re: DosLoadModule problem In <4392997F.3010709 at smedley.info>, on 12/04/05 at 05:53 PM, Paul Smedley said: >Well the only DLLs referenced my the module dlls are httpd.dll which is >present... OK. >It seems to be all module DLLs. These are all built myself with libc. In that case, I would look at the InitTerm routines. Maybe there's something in them that causing the second load attempt to fail. >I don't know what ((\xfb\t) means - there's a few references to \xfb in >the source but not the full string above.... I guess it stands for something bad as happened. :-( Steven -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "Steven Levine" MR2/ICE 2.67 #10183 Warp4.something/14.100c_W4 www.scoug.com irc.fyrelizard.com #scoug (Wed 7pm PST) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 16 ==========================** Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 08:15:35 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: Zope On Sun, Dec 04, 2005 at 09:28:05AM +1000, Andrew MacIntyre wrote: > John Poltorak wrote: > > >>>I've just managed to get v2.8.4 up and running today. > > {...} > > > Having said that, I still haven't managed to make it handle > > sockets so it is impossible to manage it properly via the management > > interface - the ability to restart it isn't there, all you can do is a > > shutdown. I could really do with some input from a 'socket expert' on how > > to get this working. > > One thing to remember about unix domain sockets on OS/2 is that the > "path" must be prefixed with \socket\ ('\\socket\\' in Python allowing of > escapes). > > Forward slashes for this prefix don't cut it. > > Any more info you can supply? The problem is knowing where to set the name. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Andrew I MacIntyre "These thoughts are mine alone..." > E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au (pref) | Snail: PO Box 370 > andymac at pcug.org.au (alt) | Belconnen ACT 2616 > Web: http://www.andymac.org/ | Australia -- John **= Email 17 ==========================** Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 08:41:31 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: Build notes for Apache v2 On Sat, Dec 03, 2005 at 11:25:15PM +1030, Paul Smedley wrote: > Hi John, > > John Poltorak wrote: > > If anyone has any build notes for Apache v2, I'd appreciate a copy of > > them. > > I only have notes for use with Innotek GCC - not EMX. Surely there won't be big difference, or does the Innotek build involve source code changes? > If you'd like a copy - I also need to clean them up a bit as libc 0.6 GA > tidied up a few things :) I could do with having a look as I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. > Cheers, > > Paul. -- John **= Email 18 ==========================** Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 19:48:37 +1030 From: Paul Smedley Subject: Re: DosLoadModule problem Hi Steven, Steven Levine wrote: > In <4392997F.3010709 at smedley.info>, on 12/04/05 > at 05:53 PM, Paul Smedley said: >> It seems to be all module DLLs. These are all built myself with libc. > > In that case, I would look at the InitTerm routines. Maybe there's > something in them that causing the second load attempt to fail. Interestingly - mod_ssl.dll loads OK - but based on a random selection - all the others fail in the fashion previously described. >> I don't know what ((\xfb\t) means - there's a few references to \xfb in >> the source but not the full string above.... > > I guess it stands for something bad as happened. :-( Yeah I guess so :( Cheers, Paul. **= Email 19 ==========================** Date: Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:52:07 +0100 From: Stefan.Neis at t-online.de Subject: Re: DosLoadModule problem Hi, > Wonder how hard it would be to change over to loading ELF modules? Quite. You'd have to include the loader code into each program wanting to load such modules... > This is the way XFree86 dynamicaly loads modules Not really, AFAIK. It's the way it loads the driver module for the graphics card (so e.g. all Intel based platforms should be able to share the same drivers which is helpful if they are distributed in a binary-only form (ATI, nVidia)). Also, that only uses a rather restricted subset of ELF features (AFAIK). All other DLLs are still loaded as normal native DLLs, so I doubt you can easily make that a general solution. Regards, Stefan