Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 00:05:19 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [UnixOS2_Archive] No. 574 ************************************************** Saturday 02 July 2005 Number 574 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: make 3.81 Beta 3 : John Poltorak 2 Subversion : John Poltorak 3 Re: CPAN : Dave Yeo" 4 Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem : Jeff Robinson 5 Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem : Neil Waldhauer" 6 Re: CPAN : John Poltorak 7 Re: CPAN : John Poltorak 8 Re: CPAN : Knut St. Osmundsen" 9 Re: CPAN : John Poltorak 10 Re: make 3.81 Beta 3 : Andreas Buening 11 Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem : Andreas Buening 12 Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem : Andreas Buening 13 Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem : Andreas Buening 14 Re: CPAN : Dave Yeo" 15 CC1.EXE hanging processing the exit list : Dave Yeo" 16 Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem : Dave Yeo" 1 UX2BS list : John Poltorak 17 Re: CPAN : John Poltorak 18 Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem : John Poltorak 2 Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem : John Poltorak 19 Debugging Perl code : John Poltorak **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 14:49:29 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: make 3.81 Beta 3 On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 10:13:29PM +0200, Andreas Buening wrote: > Hi, all! > > A new GNU make 3.81 beta version has been released which will > (hopefully) lead to a release soon(er or later). Some internals > have changed, especially for Posix conformance. Thus, the maintainer > suggests to test especially the non-Unix ports, so if you have too > much spare time ... :-) This version of Make is taking a long time to get released. Can you remind me which apps Make 3.79.1 has problems with? > I've just changed some very minor things. If you run the testsuite, > only 5 tests fail which might be an error of the testsuite and > 1 fails if you use ksh as /bin/sh (seems to be an OS/2-related > "feature" of ksh). > > You find a binary release at > http://unix.os2site.com/sw/pub/binary/make/make-3.81beta3-bin.zip > and the sources at > http://unix.os2site.com/sw/pub/source/make/make-3.81beta3.zip > > The unmodified sources can be found at > ftp://alpha.gnu.org/gnu/make/ > > > Btw, some .m4 files are still missing in the make source package, > so you have to use the enclosed configure and you can't use > autoconf/automake. Will the missing files appear in the release version? And will it build straight out of the box? > > Bye, > Andreas -- John **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 15:35:54 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Subversion A server of SUBVERSION has just been released and is available here:- http://silk.apana.org.au/subversion/ Does anyone know how to get it working in INETD mode? -- John **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 07:57:22 -0800 From: "Dave Yeo" Subject: Re: CPAN On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:42:28 +0100, John Poltorak wrote: >You say you used UX2BS but it is a moving target and does get updated from >time to time. Which version of Perl do you have? Perl 5.8.6, built on 12-17-04 Dave **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 10:20:06 -0500 From: Jeff Robinson Subject: Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem Neil Waldhauer wrote: > On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 00:01:16 +0200, Andreas Buening > wrote: > > >>Somebody who doesn't have any programming knowledge is obviously not >>the best choice to port an application. For the same reason a developer >>is not the best choice to write web pages and to setup installation trees >>because he a) thinks that porting apps is more important than to make >>an installation system (he's a developer, so what did you think is >>important for him, of course?) so that he will often "skip" those tasks if >>he's short on time, and b) he may not know how a new package is added to >>the distro, or c) he even thinks that nobody needs a installable distro >>because everything is easy to him. (At this point I apologize to all >>developers who like to write html pages and to build distros.) > > > No offense taken. I'd like to become involved with the web page and distro end > of things, myself. But I haven't yet found the build environment (OK, I do have > and like emx -- gcc 2.8.1) to make this possible. What's the status of our > web-sites now? > > Neil Unfortunately I've been rather negligent in keeping the website for UnixOS2 up to date. Part of that stems from a lot of stuff that has been going on for me personally, but also trying to figure out the best way to get things organised. I'd like some sort've framework where people could add their own information or easily submit changes so that someone could update their pages. Heh... and I don't know if I got a fully working UX2BS going, so I couldn't try and assemble a UnixOS2 environment from that. I guess I should really re-add that to my list of projects! Though if you're interested in adding/changing information on the pages you can either let me know what you'd like to see, or the source and PPWizard files should be available on the UnixOS2.org site. Jeff -- ---------------- Whatza JamochaMUD? http://www.jamochamud.org Or other stuff: http://www.anecho.mb.ca/~jeffnik ----------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 08:02:23 -0700 From: "Neil Waldhauer" Subject: Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem On Fri, 01 Jul 2005 00:01:16 +0200, Andreas Buening wrote: > Somebody who doesn't have any programming knowledge is obviously not > the best choice to port an application. For the same reason a developer > is not the best choice to write web pages and to setup installation trees > because he a) thinks that porting apps is more important than to make > an installation system (he's a developer, so what did you think is > important for him, of course?) so that he will often "skip" those tasks if > he's short on time, and b) he may not know how a new package is added to > the distro, or c) he even thinks that nobody needs a installable distro > because everything is easy to him. (At this point I apologize to all > developers who like to write html pages and to build distros.) No offense taken. I'd like to become involved with the web page and distro end of things, myself. But I haven't yet found the build environment (OK, I do have and like emx -- gcc 2.8.1) to make this possible. What's the status of our web-sites now? Neil -- Neil Waldhauer, neil at blondeguy.com Ambivalent? Well, yes and no. **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:52:22 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: CPAN On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 07:57:22AM -0800, Dave Yeo wrote: > On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:42:28 +0100, John Poltorak wrote: > > >You say you used UX2BS but it is a moving target and does get updated from > >time to time. Which version of Perl do you have? > > Perl 5.8.6, built on 12-17-04 I tried 5.8.6 too, but it does connect to CPAN and grab some files albeit corrupting them somehow. The ones in question are 01mailrc.txt.gz 02packages.details.txt.g 03modlist.data.gz Anyone know where to get these manually? It looks as though they have been changed marginally... > Dave > -- John **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 19:19:11 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: CPAN On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 05:52:22PM +0100, John Poltorak wrote: > On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 07:57:22AM -0800, Dave Yeo wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:42:28 +0100, John Poltorak wrote: > > > > >You say you used UX2BS but it is a moving target and does get updated from > > >time to time. Which version of Perl do you have? > > > > Perl 5.8.6, built on 12-17-04 > > I tried 5.8.6 too, but it does connect to CPAN and grab some files albeit > corrupting them somehow. > > The ones in question are > > 01mailrc.txt.gz > 02packages.details.txt.g > 03modlist.data.gz > > Anyone know where to get these manually? It looks as though they have been > changed marginally... I found the first one here:- ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz which downloaded correctly using WGET so it's a mystery why it gets corrupted when being retried through the CPAN shell, although I did notice that CPAN.pm adds the parameters "-O -" to the wget command line. What are those parameters for and could they mess up the retrieved program? > > Dave > > -- John **= Email 8 ==========================** Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 21:30:46 +0200 From: "Knut St. Osmundsen" Subject: Re: CPAN John Poltorak wrote: > On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 05:52:22PM +0100, John Poltorak wrote: > >>On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 07:57:22AM -0800, Dave Yeo wrote: >> >>>On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 09:42:28 +0100, John Poltorak wrote: >>> >>> >>>>You say you used UX2BS but it is a moving target and does get updated from >>>>time to time. Which version of Perl do you have? >>> >>>Perl 5.8.6, built on 12-17-04 >> >>I tried 5.8.6 too, but it does connect to CPAN and grab some files albeit >>corrupting them somehow. >> >>The ones in question are >> >>01mailrc.txt.gz > > > >>02packages.details.txt.g >>03modlist.data.gz >> >>Anyone know where to get these manually? It looks as though they have been >>changed marginally... > > > I found the first one here:- > > ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz > > which downloaded correctly using WGET so it's a mystery why it gets > corrupted when being retried through the CPAN shell, although I did notice > that CPAN.pm adds the parameters "-O -" to the wget command line. What are > those parameters for and could they mess up the retrieved program? wget --help (snip) -O --output-document=FILE write documents to FILE (snip) The custom is that '-' is stdout. It's not impossible that you're hitting a \n\r <-> \n problem. Kind Regards, knut **= Email 9 ==========================** Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 21:00:45 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: CPAN On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 09:30:46PM +0200, Knut St. Osmundsen wrote: > > I found the first one here:- > > > > ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz > > > > which downloaded correctly using WGET so it's a mystery why it gets > > corrupted when being retried through the CPAN shell, although I did notice > > that CPAN.pm adds the parameters "-O -" to the wget command line. What are > > those parameters for and could they mess up the retrieved program? > > wget --help > (snip) > -O --output-document=FILE write documents to FILE > (snip) > The custom is that '-' is stdout. It's not impossible that you're > hitting a \n\r <-> \n problem. I suspect that it is a line termination problem as you suggest, but I'm not clear what I can do to either confirm that that is the case or how to go about preventing it. > Kind Regards, > knut -- John **= Email 10 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:22:06 +0200 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: make 3.81 Beta 3 John Poltorak wrote: > This version of Make is taking a long time to get released. No comment. :-) > Can you remind me which apps Make 3.79.1 has problems with? Sorry, no, I don't remember any details. > Will the missing files appear in the release version? And will it build > straight out of the box? Of course. I just uploaded a binary release because the maintainer suggested to test especially for non-Unix systems. As far as I can see there are only the typical problems left that arise when the maintainer rewrites parts of the build framework. ;-) The make binary seems to be okay. Bye, Andreas **= Email 11 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:23:26 +0200 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem mentore.siesto at libero.it wrote: > There's also the > need to co-ordinate > all these efforts. [...] Very simplified, but yes. And, IMHO, we need less somebody who says "you port curly" and "you document foo" than we need somebody who breaks down the big and infinite task "create a build system + complete Linux-like distro for OS/2" down into small and doable pieces, e.g., to write a 20 line webpage about blurb. Which then can be done by volunteering people with limited time resources in finite time. If we could proceed even a small step every week or every month there would be a time horizon to reach the final goal, and even more important something that could spend motivation that "we can do it". Bye, Andreas **= Email 12 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:22:42 +0200 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: > Note however that this sounds easier than it > actually is, because you typically need to > find those four hours within a rather small > part of the month, i.e. delaying the release > because you just have no time at all for the > next week to test if it works on OS/2 as well, > will often _not_ work. :-( Ok, this could happen. But in most cases I'm aware of, a release cycle either contains more than one beta release or several weeks of time for testing. And there are often also other systems which require some fixes. If this helped to get 90% of all packages to compile out of the box it would be worth, IMHO. Bye, Andreas **= Email 13 ==========================** Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:23:14 +0200 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem billn wrote: > But: Why not use FreeBSD ports, adjusted for OS/2? [snip] > Comments? I don't know the FreeBSD tools so I can't say anything about them. Some people say they are better structured. Might be, the source of some GNU tools looks like spaghetti, wouldn't really hard to beat them. Whether they would be easy/easier to port I have no idea. All I know is that some GNU tools have some special features and are widely spread even amoung commercial Unix systems like GNU make, GNU tar, GNU C Compiler (gcc); and I know that the GNU tools have some support for DOS/Win which simplifies our life. I see no reason why we shouldn't accept any FreeBSD variants for some tools, but again: I don't know the advantages/disadvantages in practise. Bye, Andreas **= Email 14 ==========================** Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 17:59:45 -0800 From: "Dave Yeo" Subject: Re: CPAN On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:52:22 +0100, John Poltorak wrote: >I tried 5.8.6 too, but it does connect to CPAN and grab some files albeit >corrupting them somehow. > >The ones in question are > >01mailrc.txt.gz >02packages.details.txt.g >03modlist.data.gz These seem ok here. I did notice an error from gzip about stdout being unrecognized os something Dave **= Email 15 ==========================** Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 18:11:43 -0800 From: "Dave Yeo" Subject: CC1.EXE hanging processing the exit list Went to work leaving a long compile happening. Came home and it had died due to an out of memory error. Killed emxload and sent a break to the hung CC1 process and now its sitting processing its exit list Newest Innotek_libc, any one else had this? I never have, usually killing emxload is enough, occasionally a ctrl-c as well. Dave **= Email 16 ==========================** Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 20:14:41 -0800 From: "Dave Yeo" Subject: Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:42:26 +0100, John Poltorak wrote: >> I think the only place that ASH is hardwired is a %MAKESHELL% and >> %CONFIG_SHELL% in setmozenv.cmd. > >It's in GLIB and LIBIDL. Thats only in the *-config scripts, just change the name. > >> Anyways what is wrong with using ASH >> as the makeshell? Much faster then bash or ksh. Just have to work >> around a bug by puuting something like x:\foo at the beginning of >> %PATH% > >I settled on PDKSH a long time ago - had problems with everything else and >no other shell can be used for building Perl AFAIK so I stuck with just >this one. UX2BS works with PDKSH. I could get ASH to work - don't remember >why, but in the interests of efficiency I would like to give it a try just >to see the difference in performance. Well since it is somewhat broken in a posix sense according to Stefan you will have to keep both around and use ASH or pdksh as appropriate. As far as I know the main OS/2 bug is in disregarding the first entry in %PATH%. You just need a dummy value as the first member of %PATH% eg PATH=\foo;%PATH% Dave **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 16:37:31 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: UX2BS list Does anyone know whether the UX2BS list is still functioning? I'd really like to get started again with UX2BSand get a few people to try it out as I'v been making a few adjustments to the internal directory structure and want to be sure everything which did work, still works. -- John **= Email 17 ==========================** Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 09:08:12 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: CPAN On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 05:59:45PM -0800, Dave Yeo wrote: > On Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:52:22 +0100, John Poltorak wrote: > > >I tried 5.8.6 too, but it does connect to CPAN and grab some files albeit > >corrupting them somehow. > > > >The ones in question are > > > >01mailrc.txt.gz > >02packages.details.txt.g > >03modlist.data.gz > > These seem ok here. Do you know how they got retrieved? On my system it was by Perl invoking 'wget -O -' which may well have introduced line termination errors. When using CPAN for the first time a number of programs are defined. Do you know what CPAN uses on your system? > I did notice an error from gzip about stdout being unrecognized os > something Is it possible to log a CPAN session? > Dave -- John **= Email 18 ==========================** Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 10:50:36 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 12:23:26AM +0200, Andreas Buening wrote: > mentore.siesto at libero.it wrote: > > > There's also the > > need to co-ordinate > > all these efforts. > > [...] > > Very simplified, but yes. OS/2 developers are very independent. Trying to co-ordinate them is like herding cats. > And, IMHO, we need less somebody who > says "you port curly" and "you document foo" than we need somebody > who breaks down the big and infinite task "create a build system > + complete Linux-like distro for OS/2" down into small and doable > pieces, It's difficult breaking down a build system into small chunks, but once it is in place then adding new small chunks is relatively easy. Currently one small chunk I've overlooked is building GZIP (v1.2.4). It compiles without any problem using the included OS/2 makefile, but it doesn't have am INSTALL target, so it isn't possible to run 'make install'. I wonder if GZIP could be built using the standard 'autoconf, configure & make' procedure rather than 'make makefile.os2'... > e.g., to write a 20 line webpage about blurb. Which then > can be done by volunteering people with limited time resources > in finite time. If we could proceed even a small step every week > or every month there would be a time horizon to reach the final > goal, and even more important something that could spend > motivation that "we can do it". Where I lose motivation is when I just can't get something working especially when others can and I have no idea what I've done wrong or missed out. When this happens with every app I try, it just makes me want to through my computers away... > > Bye, > Andreas -- John **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 10:19:10 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: The OS/2 and eCS Ecosystem On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 12:22:42AM +0200, Andreas Buening wrote: > Stefan.Neis at t-online.de wrote: > > > Note however that this sounds easier than it > > actually is, because you typically need to > > find those four hours within a rather small > > part of the month, i.e. delaying the release > > because you just have no time at all for the > > next week to test if it works on OS/2 as well, > > will often _not_ work. :-( > > Ok, this could happen. But in most cases I'm aware of, a release > cycle either contains more than one beta release or several weeks > of time for testing. And there are often also other systems which > require some fixes. If this helped to get 90% of all packages > to compile out of the box it would be worth, IMHO. I would like to think that once the correct build infrastructure is in place that most apps would be self maintaining... Is this just a pipedream? > > Bye, > Andreas -- John **= Email 19 ==========================** Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 12:06:14 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Debugging Perl code Looking at CPAN.pm, I suspect I am getting some file corruption introduced by this code:- $self->debug("localizing funkyftpwise[$url]") if $CPAN::DEBUG; my($f,$funkyftp); for $f ('lynx','ncftpget','ncftp','wget') { next unless exists $CPAN::Config->{$f}; $funkyftp = $CPAN::Config->{$f}; next unless defined $funkyftp; next if $funkyftp =~ /^\s*$/; my($asl_ungz, $asl_gz); ($asl_ungz = $aslocal) =~ s/\.gz//; $asl_gz = "$asl_ungz.gz"; my($src_switch) = ""; if ($f eq "lynx"){ $src_switch = " -source"; } elsif ($f eq "ncftp"){ $src_switch = " -c"; } elsif ($f eq "wget"){ $src_switch = " -O -"; } my($chdir) = ""; my($stdout_redir) = " > $asl_ungz"; if ($f eq "ncftpget"){ $chdir = "cd $aslocal_dir && "; $stdout_redir = ""; } WGET retrieves files correctly but then something goes and appends some additional data. Is the above code where this is done? Any way to log it? -- John