From: UnixOS2 Archive To: "UnixOS2 Archive" Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 14:09:45 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [UnixOS2_Archive] No. 158 ************************************************** Saturday 02 August 2003 Number 158 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: Thunderbird : Jeff Robinson 2 Re: Mozilla_build script : Steve Wendt" 3 Re: Mozilla_build script : Steve Wendt" 4 Re: Mozilla_build script : Jeff Robinson 5 Re: Re: ALSA/2 (was: Mozilla_build script) : Steve Wendt" 6 Re: Mozilla_build script : Steve Wendt" 7 Re: Mailing list questions : Jeff Robinson 8 Re: Mozilla_build script : Jeff Robinson 9 Thunderbird : Alex Newman" 10 Re: Re: ALSA/2 (was: Mozilla_build script) : Steve Wendt" 11 Re: Mailing list questions : Stefan Neis 12 Re: Mailing list questions : Holger Veit 13 Re: Re: ALSA/2 (was: Mozilla_build script) : Kris Steenhaut **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:26:31 -0500 From: Jeff Robinson Subject: Re: Thunderbird Alex Newman wrote: > The 0.1 alpha release of Thunderbird is out. I have seen a post that > suggests that Tbird/2 was built using gcc 3.2.2. > > Can anyone confirm or corroborate this? > > Alex. > I just saw the newsgroup posting about Thunderbird as well... it says that it requires the libc runtime from Innotek so it certainly seems that it would've been done with gcc 3.2.2. I haven't tried to it yet, so can't say 100% factually yet. Jeff -- ---------------- Whatza JamochaMUD? http://jamochamud.anecho.mb.ca Or other stuff: http://www.anecho.mb.ca/~jeffnik ----------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 10:29:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Wendt" Subject: Re: Mozilla_build script On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 09:10:15 -0500, Jeff Robinson wrote: >>>> I am assuming they will have to provide their source free as per GPL >>>> and LGPL license. Which should benefit us greatly > >If nothing else, it can be an incredible PR mistake on the company's >part. That's be shown! They still haven't released the full source for their ALSA drivers. ----------- "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 12:20:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Wendt" Subject: Re: Mozilla_build script On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:15:54 -0500, Jeff Robinson wrote: >> They still haven't released the full source for their ALSA drivers. > >Isn't this it? http://www.innotek.de/products/uniaud/source/ No, that is only part of it. There have been a few people complaining that they downloaded that in the hopes of adding support for additional chipsets, but could not do so because the loader code is missing. ----------- "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:15:54 -0500 From: Jeff Robinson Subject: Re: Mozilla_build script Steve Wendt wrote: > On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 09:10:15 -0500, Jeff Robinson wrote: > > >>>>>I am assuming they will have to provide their source free as per GPL >>>>>and LGPL license. Which should benefit us greatly >> >>If nothing else, it can be an incredible PR mistake on the company's >>part. That's be shown! > > > They still haven't released the full source for their ALSA drivers. > Isn't this it? http://www.innotek.de/products/uniaud/source/ Jeff -- ---------------- Whatza JamochaMUD? http://jamochamud.anecho.mb.ca Or other stuff: http://www.anecho.mb.ca/~jeffnik ----------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 14:16:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Wendt" Subject: Re: Re: ALSA/2 (was: Mozilla_build script) On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 00:01:45 +0300 (MSK), Andrew Belov wrote: >Innotek has played an elaborate trick by retaining the source code for >UNIAUD16.SYS (as of Jan 2003). At close inspection, there is no violation >of GPL: UNIAUD32.SYS comprises a stand-alone "main" part, and >UNIAUD16.SYS is "just a wrapper" to interface ALSA with MMPM/2. I disagree - they are not separate works if they rely on each other. The GPL is pretty clear about this, I think. ----------- "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 15:31:14 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Wendt" Subject: Re: Mozilla_build script On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 16:29:38 -0500, Jeff Robinson wrote: > I seem to recall hearing about some graphics card manufacturers doing >something similar for "display drivers" on XFree86. I don't think so... it's either binary only (Nvidia, Matrox, and ATI have these), or part of XFree86 and open source. Sometimes there are kernel drivers as well, but I don't think it is the same issue as this. >Though the ALSA-based drivers a probably slightly off topic for the list >(even though I'd like to know more about this), it does present on >philosophy for the Innotek libc... don't assume anything until we've got >working source in our hands. Right! ----------- "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 16:25:50 -0500 From: Jeff Robinson Subject: Re: Mailing list questions Holger Veit wrote: > On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 07:41:07PM +0200, Stefan Neis wrote: > >>On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Esben Rugbjerg wrote: >> >> >>>Well, Holger Veit had an archive once but all his >>>homepages seem to have been removed from the server. In >>>the past the url to the archive was: >>>http://ais.gmd.de/~veit/os2/mailinglist4/date.html >> >>Holger's new server is >> http://xfreeos2.dyndns.org/ >>but it looks like it doesn't include a unixos2 archive any more. >>Not sure, if that's intentional or just an oversight... > > > The archive will return eventually, probably with some new software. > The messages are still being saved as they are arriving, so nothing > gets lost. > > It's just that things need time... > > Holger Understandable, and appreciated that you're keeping an archive for us. Jeff -- ---------------- Whatza JamochaMUD? http://jamochamud.anecho.mb.ca Or other stuff: http://www.anecho.mb.ca/~jeffnik ----------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 8 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 16:29:38 -0500 From: Jeff Robinson Subject: Re: Mozilla_build script Steve Wendt wrote: > On Sun, 03 Aug 2003 13:15:54 -0500, Jeff Robinson wrote: > > >>>They still haven't released the full source for their ALSA drivers. >> >>Isn't this it? http://www.innotek.de/products/uniaud/source/ > > > No, that is only part of it. There have been a few people complaining that they > downloaded that in the hopes of adding support for additional chipsets, but could > not do so because the loader code is missing. > That's unfortunate, but I guess on can understand it on a certain commercial level. More the word of the law than the spirit of the law. I seem to recall hearing about some graphics card manufacturers doing something similar for "display drivers" on XFree86. Though the ALSA-based drivers a probably slightly off topic for the list (even though I'd like to know more about this), it does present on philosophy for the Innotek libc... don't assume anything until we've got working source in our hands. Jeff -- ---------------- Whatza JamochaMUD? http://jamochamud.anecho.mb.ca Or other stuff: http://www.anecho.mb.ca/~jeffnik ----------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 9 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 16:40:28 +1000 (EST) From: "Alex Newman" Subject: Thunderbird The 0.1 alpha release of Thunderbird is out. I have seen a post that suggests that Tbird/2 was built using gcc 3.2.2. Can anyone confirm or corroborate this? Alex. **= Email 10 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 19:04:24 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Wendt" Subject: Re: Re: ALSA/2 (was: Mozilla_build script) On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 02:24:58 +0300 (MSK), Andrew Belov wrote: >In this case, we have a closed-source software (UNIAUD16.SYS) written for an >Open-Source environment (UNIAUD32.SYS). It is clear we can design >closed-source programs and drivers for Linux: think of UNIAUD16.SYS as of >VMWare or DB2, and imagine that UNIAUD32.SYS is the Linux kernel. That's >exactly the case. The Linux kernel is useful for many other completely unrelated things, but UNIAUD32 is not. I don't find your analogy convincing. ----------- "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) **= Email 11 ==========================** Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 19:41:07 +0200 (CEST) From: Stefan Neis Subject: Re: Mailing list questions On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Esben Rugbjerg wrote: > Well, Holger Veit had an archive once but all his > homepages seem to have been removed from the server. In > the past the url to the archive was: > http://ais.gmd.de/~veit/os2/mailinglist4/date.html Holger's new server is http://xfreeos2.dyndns.org/ but it looks like it doesn't include a unixos2 archive any more. Not sure, if that's intentional or just an oversight... Regards, Stefan -- Micro$oft is not an answer. It is a question. The answer is 'no'. **= Email 12 ==========================** Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2003 21:18:48 +0200 From: Holger Veit Subject: Re: Mailing list questions On Sun, Aug 03, 2003 at 07:41:07PM +0200, Stefan Neis wrote: > On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, Esben Rugbjerg wrote: > > > Well, Holger Veit had an archive once but all his > > homepages seem to have been removed from the server. In > > the past the url to the archive was: > > http://ais.gmd.de/~veit/os2/mailinglist4/date.html > > Holger's new server is > http://xfreeos2.dyndns.org/ > but it looks like it doesn't include a unixos2 archive any more. > Not sure, if that's intentional or just an oversight... The archive will return eventually, probably with some new software. The messages are still being saved as they are arriving, so nothing gets lost. It's just that things need time... Holger **= Email 13 ==========================** Date: Sun, 03 Aug 2003 22:44:52 +0200 From: Kris Steenhaut Subject: Re: Re: ALSA/2 (was: Mozilla_build script) Andrew Belov schreef: >Whatever the reasons for this decision were, it is undoubtedly not a fair >practice in the Open-Source world. > > > > As Innotek belongs more the the M$-World that isn't much of a surprise. -- Groeten uit Gent, Kris