From: UnixOS2 Archive To: "UnixOS2 Archive" Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:03:26 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [UnixOS2_Archive] No. 102 ************************************************** Thursday 17 April 2003 Number 102 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: eFDS-1.TXT : Andreas Buening 2 Re: eFDS-1.TXT : Hannes Hromadka 3 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Steven Levine" 4 Re: Newbie : John Poltorak 5 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : John Poltorak 6 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Kris Steenhaut 7 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : John Poltorak 8 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Kris Steenhaut 9 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Steve Wendt" 10 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Steve Wendt" 11 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Steve Wendt" 12 Re: eFDS-1.TXT : Andreas Buening 13 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Christian Hennecke" 14 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Steven Levine" 15 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Kris Steenhaut 16 AF_UNIX sockets : John Poltorak 17 Re: AF_UNIX sockets : Yuri Dario" 18 Re: AF_UNIX sockets : John Poltorak 19 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Kris Steenhaut 20 Re: eFDS-1.TXT : Nicky Morrow 21 Re: Newbie : Nicky Morrow 22 Re: eFDS-1.TXT : Nicky Morrow 23 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Andrew MacIntyre **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 01:38:58 +0200 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: eFDS-1.TXT Nicky Morrow wrote: Hello! I've commented a lot of points below which I think should be considered. It's quite a lot. So I tried to keep the comments short. Some points might be not explained well enough. If anything is unclear, feel free to blame me. First I want to mention that eCS and UnixOS/2 are different approaches and they shouldn't screw up each other. I.e. there should be no name clashes for env. vars or directory names. [snip] > eCS File and Directory Standard (eFDS)-- Version 1 draft [snip] > \ecs - intended for static, nonshareable files > -- read-only > -- will not be made available on the lan > -- must be located on host system > -- must be on the boot volume > > \home - intended for variable, shareable files > -- read-write > -- may be made available on the lan > -- does not need to be located on the host system > -- does not need to be on the boot volume As other people have already suggested: There may be more than one home directory (/home, /home2, /home3) or /home may have another name. Even for Unix /home is not fixed so I'd suggest to use just $HOME for it. Problem: Should HOME use forward or backward slashes? > \programs - intended for static, shareable files > -- read-only > -- may be made available on the lan > -- does not need to be located on the host system > -- does not need to be on the boot volume Okay. This is what /opt is intended for on Unix. > \var - intended for variable, nonshareable files > -- read-write > -- will not be made available on the lan > -- must be located on host system > -- does not need to be on the boot volume > > END RATIONALE [snip] > \ecs\bin essential command binaries (no subdirectories allowed) [snip] > NOTE: \ecs\bin and \ecs\system both contain essential binaries but they > are for very different purposes. \ecs\system contains only directories > that hold files related to large complex packages, while \ecs\bin is for > standalone system utilities. Which binaries exactly? Where are the standard OS/2 and DOS tools? \os2\*? Only for eCS tools or is this intended for all standalone programs? It makes sense to have one _system_ bin dir for the OS itself and one user/third party bin dir (to be screwed up by the user) as it is the case for /usr/bin versus /usr/local/bin on Unix. [snip] > The \programs directory shall contain only subdirectories which in turn > will contain the files and subdirectories specific to a particular > application. What about special files like *.inf? You could support e.g. a \program\book dir where programs could (but needn't) store their docs. [snip] > The \home directory shall contain only subdirectories which in turn This is in contradiction to the Unix /home directory. [snip] > The \var directory shall contain the following directories: > > \var\cfg application configuration files that contain data not > specific to an individual user > \var\log .log files (no subdirectories allowed) > \var\temp temporary files (no subdirectories allowed) Unix also has /var. FHS requires config files to be in /etc not in /var. FHS makes a difference between /tmp and /var/tmp. The latter is supposed to be persistent (though I haven't ever seen a system where /tmp is cleaned at startup). > unzip.exe The unzip unarchiving utility > zip.exe The zip archiving utility FHS also requires zip and unzip in its tree. [snip] > SET TMP=x:\var\temp > SET TEMP=x:\var\temp > SET TMPDIR=x:\var\temp OS/2 used to support that the temp dir is relocatable by the env. vars TMP and TEMP. So I see no need for a hardcoded name at this point. TMPDIR is used by some Unix apps as an alternative to a hardcoded /tmp so please don't use it in the eFDS. Additionally TMPDIR should use forward slashes. > SET USER_INI=x:\home\\cfg\os2.ini In another posting you asked where to place the ini files. Good question. I think /home is not the worst place. [snip] > eStyler would then locate estyler.ini as such: > > x:\home\stjohnb\cfg\estyler.ini FHS distinguishes between /etc config files (system wide) and /home config files (user specific). Btw, if I remember correctly there was the intention to add a $HOME/config or $HOME/.config file to the next FHS standard (I'm not sure about the dir name). [snip] /etc is another story. OS/2 recognizes $ETC and there's nothing wrong with it. Everbody should be able to put $ETC whereever he wants. On the other hand Unix also has /etc which is more or less hardcoded. eCS and ux2 users should be able to use ONE /etc dir for both. So maybe ETC=%BOOTDRIVE%\etc could be a reasonable default for OS/2. Bye, Andreas -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:08:40 +0200 From: Hannes Hromadka Subject: Re: eFDS-1.TXT On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 10:22:29PM -0300, Nicky Morrow wrote: > "There may be more than one home directory on a host system but a maximum > of one per volume." To make use of more than one home dir requires the OS to be a multi user OS. Will eCS 1.1 be a multi user OS ? Ciao, Hannes -- Johannes Hromadka | Email Office: HromadkaJ at gmx.at | Home : Johannes.Hromadka at gmx.net Vienna/Austria/Europe | OECC: http://www.oecc.org/ >>> Rust never sleeps (borrowed from Neil YOUNG) <<< **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:20:35 -0700 From: "Steven Levine" Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! In <3E9FF985.5030308 at hccnet.nl>, on 04/18/03 at 03:11 PM, Kris Steenhaut said: >Me thinks question is will the Innotek thingy work properly without >Innotek support. Can I presume you are absolutely sure it will? Besides being rather paranoid, this kind of discussion is, IMO, a bit off-topic for this list. If you really have these concerns, why don't you ask Innotek directly? Since the package is not yet available for download, I can only go by my past experiences with Innotek. The probucts they develop and deliver appear to work better than the alternatives. Steven -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Steven Levine" MR2/ICE 2.37 #10183 Warp4/FP15/14.085_W4 www.scoug.com irc.webbnet.org #scoug (Wed 7pm PST) --------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:28:59 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: Newbie On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 06:00:42PM -0300, Nicky Morrow wrote: > Let me ask you this: Are there particular cli utilities that you would > like to see included by default in the next release of eCS (v2)? I take it you mean 'text mode' when use say cli... The program which is the most important for me is File Commander. I'd be completely lost without it. It's shareware, so I guess you would need to come to some arrangement with Brian Havard, its developer, if you wanted to include it in eCS. I also use ZTreeBold from time to time. This includes an excellent text mode file comparison program called TFC, which I suspect few people have come across. TFC works great with FC. TOP is useful program for providing a list of active processes and provides info on CPU usage. Other text mode programs which are useful are MUTT - my preferred mail client, LYNX as a browser, SLRN as a news reader. These are all ports of Unix programs. > I also > serve as the team leader for the eCSDevGroup Utilities Team. Including > high quality cli utilities is on the agenda. We added some for eCS v1.1 > but will be looking for more for v2. Most of CLI utils I use consist of Unix utils such sed, grep and all the GNU utils, as well as WGET, but there are also a huge number which are avilable that I only use from time to time such as CDRECORD. In addition, I use a couple of really old programs from over ten years ago written by Chris Laforet called RUNNING2 and SLAY which I've renamed as PS and KILL because they are really useful in a Unix-like environment. There are also a whole load of CLI programs which I find indispensible but they just run in the background without any interference from me. They are all Unix Internet daemons and include, sendmail, apache, syslogd, bind, inetd, squid, sockd, sshd and probably many more I would like to incorporate all of these into a UnixOS/2 distro at some point. > Regards, > > Nick -- John **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:43:08 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! On Fri, Apr 18, 2003 at 10:09:59AM +0200, Kris Steenhaut wrote: > > > Steve Wendt schreef: > > >On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:10:52 +0200, Kris Steenhaut wrote: > > > > > > > >>>http://www.innotek.de/products/gccos2/ > >>> > >>> > >>Ugh? You are prepared to put $ 25.000 out of your pocket? > >> > >> > > > >You only have to pay for defect support. Otherwise, it is supposed to be freely > >available... > > > > > > > Maybe, although I couldn't deduct that directly from the statements. gcc is a GNU program. It includes the GNU Licence. > Anyway, supposed it would be free indeed, then to ask $25000 for support > looks rather suspicious. Reminds me of M$ tactics (remember the > appalling $1000 for a new hpfs386 license). There is absolutely no comparison!! You do not buy a licence from Innotek to use the product. It is free. What you are buying is support. Given that IBM have withdrawn VAC++ for OS/2, any professional development company using C on OS/2 has nowhere to go for *professional* help and the likely result is the abandonment of on going OS/2 development because it is impossible to provide maintenance using unsupported products. I'm intrigued by this offering from Innotek and wonder how much demand there will be... They must have had a business case for offering this service. > -- > > Groeten uit Gent, > > Kris -- John **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 10:09:59 +0200 From: Kris Steenhaut Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! Steve Wendt schreef: >On Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:10:52 +0200, Kris Steenhaut wrote: > > > >>>http://www.innotek.de/products/gccos2/ >>> >>> >>Ugh? You are prepared to put $ 25.000 out of your pocket? >> >> > >You only have to pay for defect support. Otherwise, it is supposed to be freely >available... > > > Maybe, although I couldn't deduct that directly from the statements. Anyway, supposed it would be free indeed, then to ask $25000 for support looks rather suspicious. Reminds me of M$ tactics (remember the appalling $1000 for a new hpfs386 license). -- Groeten uit Gent, Kris **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:11:13 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! On Fri, Apr 18, 2003 at 11:38:18AM +0200, Kris Steenhaut wrote: > > > John Poltorak schreef: > > >There is absolutely no comparison!! You do not buy a licence from Innotek > >to use the product. It is free. What you are buying is support. > > > > > So the question is: can it do without support? It's just like insurance. You can drive a car without insurance, but what happens when you have an accident? Do you want to pay all the bills out of your own pocket? > I don't know. But when there is a price tag that high for support common > sense tells there is a catch somewhere. No. Common sense says that you get what you pay for. You get free support from USENET but there is no obligation for anyone to help. If you are paying for support, you expect to have problems resolved. > >Given that IBM have withdrawn VAC++ for OS/2, any professional development > >company using C on OS/2 has nowhere to go for *professional* help and the > >likely result is the abandonment of on going OS/2 development because it is > >impossible to provide maintenance using unsupported products. > > > >I'm intrigued by this offering from Innotek and wonder how much demand > >there will be... > > > I can't see any company (and sure not Serenity) paying that much. Do you??? Among the remaining large OS/2 users there are companies like Deutche Bank, HSBC, Bank of America. This level of cost is nothing to them. Whether any such company would be considering using gcc would be surprising to me, but what other alternatives would they have to VAC++? > > They must have had a business case > > > Don't forget M$ is leading the business now. They have a stranglehold, so it is necessary for anyone supporting alternative products to be profitable in order to be able to compete without going broke. > -- > Groeten uit Gent, > > Kris -- John **= Email 8 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:38:18 +0200 From: Kris Steenhaut Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! John Poltorak schreef: >There is absolutely no comparison!! You do not buy a licence from Innotek >to use the product. It is free. What you are buying is support. > > So the question is: can it do without support? I don't know. But when there is a price tag that high for support common sense tells there is a catch somewhere. >Given that IBM have withdrawn VAC++ for OS/2, any professional development >company using C on OS/2 has nowhere to go for *professional* help and the >likely result is the abandonment of on going OS/2 development because it is >impossible to provide maintenance using unsupported products. > >I'm intrigued by this offering from Innotek and wonder how much demand >there will be... > I can't see any company (and sure not Serenity) paying that much. Do you??? > They must have had a business case > Don't forget M$ is leading the business now. > for offering this >service. > > -- Groeten uit Gent, Kris **= Email 9 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:47:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Wendt" Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 09:43:08 +0100, John Poltorak wrote: >I'm intrigued by this offering from Innotek and wonder how much demand >there will be... They must have had a business case for offering this >service. Absolutely - if you read between the lines, you will come to realize that the IBM Mozilla team is their (paying for support) customer. ----------- "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) **= Email 10 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:48:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Wendt" Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:38:18 +0200, Kris Steenhaut wrote: >>I'm intrigued by this offering from Innotek and wonder how much demand > >Don't forget M$ is leading the business now. Microsoft bought Connectix, not Innotek. ----------- "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) **= Email 11 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:53:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steve Wendt" Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:11:33 +0200, Kris Steenhaut wrote: >>Among the remaining large OS/2 users there are companies like Deutche >>Bank, > >In case you shouldn't now, DB is moving to Windy thanks to the good care >of Innotek. That may be partially true (I don't know), but Deutsche Bank is definitely still using OS/2, and Innotek is providing them support for it. >Not sure wat you want to say. But sure it is Innotek wants us to move >away from OS/2: > >> carrying that effort forward and to helping those sun-setting OS/2 in >> 2006 migrate over to XP." Regardless of what Connectix/Innotek say, IBM is the company that has ceased OS/2 development... so any commercial vendors are going to see a limited lifespan for OS/2 products. ----------- "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." - Plato (427-347 B.C.) **= Email 12 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:09:34 +0200 From: Andreas Buening Subject: Re: eFDS-1.TXT Nicky Morrow wrote: > > Andreas Buening wrote: [snip] > >As other people have already suggested: There may be more than one > >home directory (/home, /home2, /home3) or /home may have another > >name. > > > > You are about the 3rd person to mention this. It is in line with what > we were thinking but we had not put it in the document. Correct me if > I'm wrong but a slight modification could be in order for eCS since it > does use volume identifiers (otherwise known as drive letters). It > should read as: > > "There may be more than one home directory on a host system but a maximum of one per volume." > > How does that read? From the application's or user's point of view the home directory is that one that is defined by %HOME%. Whether it's /home/joe or /home/j/joe or /home2/joe is completely irrelevant to them. "/home" is more an abstract concept than a hardcoded path. So I'd just say something like "There is a /home dir that obeys the following rules ... The name of /home can be changed.". > Should that not apply to \programs as well? I'd say /programs as well as /opt is more a suggestion than a requirement. If anybody wants to install his programs into /funny_dir he should be free to do so. [snip] > > The \var directory shall contain the following directories: > > > > \var\cfg application configuration files that contain data not > > specific to an individual user > > \var\log .log files (no subdirectories allowed) > > \var\temp temporary files (no subdirectories allowed) > > > > > > > >Unix also has /var. FHS requires config files to be in /etc not in /var. > >FHS makes a difference between /tmp and /var/tmp. The latter is supposed > >to be persistent (though I haven't ever seen a system where /tmp is > >cleaned at startup). > > > > This is definately a discussion item. For this release of eCS you will > see only: > > \var\log > \var\temp > > For the next version we could add: > > \var\cache > \var\spool > > What do you think? Just keep compatible with the FHS if you use the same dir names, please. [snip] > >TMPDIR is used by some Unix apps as an alternative to a hardcoded /tmp > >so please don't use it in the eFDS. > > > > We can pull tmpdir out before v2 ships (it will be in v1.1 which is > shipping right now)...can you be more specific as to why it should be > pulled? Some of the GNU tools use TMPDIR instead of the hardcoded /tmp. UnixOS/2 needs a way to specify the temp dir so TMPDIR is a natural solution. Additionally OS/2 never used this name and it is not necessary to have three different env. vars (TEMP, TMP, TMPDIR) being identical. And for (Unix) shell scripts forward slashes are absolutely necessary. So please keep TMPDIR up to the UnixOS/2 people. [snip] Bye, Andreas -- One OS to rule them all, One OS to find them, One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. **= Email 13 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:15:12 +0200 (CEST) From: "Christian Hennecke" Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 11:38:18 +0200, Kris Steenhaut wrote: >>There is absolutely no comparison!! You do not buy a licence from Innotek >>to use the product. It is free. What you are buying is support. >> >> >So the question is: can it do without support? > >I don't know. But when there is a price tag that high for support common >sense tells there is a catch somewhere. Don't be paranoid, Kris. Basically, we'll be in the same situation as all the Unix folks. The compiler suite will be available for free, as will be the source. And you can get support by fellow users on the net. If a company requires commercial grade support, it will have to pay for it. Same for Unix users. How do you think people make money of Linux? Support, support, support. Christian Hennecke **= Email 14 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:17:15 -0700 From: "Steven Levine" Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! In , on 04/18/03 at 11:58 PM, Andrew MacIntyre said: >OpenWatcom is the only alternative left. I think Scitech might be hoping >to get some support business from it. >The OW C compiler is potent, but the OW C++ compiler is apparently not up >to current standards compliance... OW is excellent for device drivers and I expect it to continue to lead in this area. Steven -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Steven Levine" MR2/ICE 2.37 #10183 Warp4/FP15/14.085_W4 www.scoug.com irc.webbnet.org #scoug (Wed 7pm PST) --------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 15 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:11:33 +0200 From: Kris Steenhaut Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! John Poltorak schreef: >>So the question is: can it do without support? >> >> > >It's just like insurance. You can drive a car without insurance, but what >happens when you have an accident? Do you want to pay all the bills out of >your own pocket? > > Dunno how it is in the UK, but here Belgium it is absolutely illegal to drive a car without proper insurance. > > >>I don't know. But when there is a price tag that high for support common >>sense tells there is a catch somewhere. >> >> > >No. Common sense says that you get what you pay for. > >You get free support from USENET but there is no obligation for anyone to >help. If you are paying for support, you expect to have problems resolved. > Me thinks question is will the Innotek thingy work properly without Innotek support. Can I presume you are absolutely sure it will? >>ty) paying that much. Do you??? >> >> > >Among the remaining large OS/2 users there are companies like Deutche >Bank, > In case you shouldn't now, DB is moving to Windy thanks to the good care of Innotek. > HSBC, Bank of America. This level of cost is nothing to them. Whether >any such company would be considering using gcc would be surprising to me, >but what other alternatives would they have to VAC++? > > I think companies like that just don't bother. >They have a stranglehold, so it is necessary for anyone supporting >alternative products to be profitable in order to be able to compete >without going broke. > Not sure wat you want to say. But sure it is Innotek wants us to move away from OS/2: > > "People migrating away from legacy OS/2 are the principle users of the > Connectix Windows client product. Microsoft is fully committed to > carrying that effort forward and to helping those sun-setting OS/2 in > 2006 migrate over to XP." > Roy McDonald, CEO, Connectix Corp. http://www.innotek.de/support/forums/ -- Groeten uit Gent, Kris **= Email 16 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 17:02:28 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: AF_UNIX sockets If a program refers to AF_UNIX sockets, should this be converted to AF_OS2 when compiling the code on OS/2? And if so, is there any mechanism to convert it automatically when compiling, so that source code changes are not required? -- John **= Email 17 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 18:25:42 +0200 (CDT) From: "Yuri Dario" Subject: Re: AF_UNIX sockets Hi John, >If a program refers to AF_UNIX sockets, should this be converted to >AF_OS2 when compiling the code on OS/2? And if so, is there any mechanism if you look at sys\socket.h, AF_UNIX and AF_OS2 are the same macro. >to convert it automatically when compiling, so that source code changes >are not required? code changes are not required, local sockets are working in the same way unix does, the only change is that OS/2 requires the socket name to start with \socket\, while under unix the name is a valid path name. Bye, Yuri Dario /* * member of TeamOS/2 - Italy * http://www.quasarbbs.net/yuri * http://www.teamos2.it * http://www.opera.com/os2/ */ **= Email 18 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 20:33:58 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: AF_UNIX sockets On Fri, Apr 18, 2003 at 06:25:42PM +0200, Yuri Dario wrote: > Hi John, > > >If a program refers to AF_UNIX sockets, should this be converted to > >AF_OS2 when compiling the code on OS/2? And if so, is there any mechanism > > if you look at sys\socket.h, AF_UNIX and AF_OS2 are the same macro. Ahhhh... Thanks for pointing that out. > >to convert it automatically when compiling, so that source code changes > >are not required? > > code changes are not required, local sockets are working in the same way unix does, the only > change is that OS/2 requires the socket name to start with \socket\, while under unix the name > is a valid path name. Any ideas on how I can delete some AF_OS2 sockets? I have a system which seems to have a accumulated quite a few and I can't get rid of them. SOCLOSE only works on AF_INET sockets. I'm also having problems with a TRAP E in AFOS2. Any ideas on how I might be able to trace what is happening? > > Bye, > > Yuri Dario > > /* > * member of TeamOS/2 - Italy > * http://www.quasarbbs.net/yuri > * http://www.teamos2.it > * http://www.opera.com/os2/ > */ -- John **= Email 19 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 21:16:33 +0200 From: Kris Steenhaut Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! Steve Wendt schreef: >On Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:11:33 +0200, Kris Steenhaut wrote: > > > >>>Among the remaining large OS/2 users there are companies like Deutche >>>Bank, >>> >>> >>In case you shouldn't now, DB is moving to Windy thanks to the good care >>of Innotek. >> >> > >That may be partially true (I don't know), but Deutsche Bank is definitely still >using OS/2, and Innotek is providing them support for it. > > There are the providing the support to move the whole lot to Windy. > > >>Not sure wat you want to say. But sure it is Innotek wants us to move >>away from OS/2: >> >> >> >>>carrying that effort forward and to helping those sun-setting OS/2 in >>>2006 migrate over to XP." >>> >>> > >Regardless of what Connectix/Innotek say, IBM is the company that has ceased >OS/2 development... > Quite right. And M$ is picking now the DB and other remains with Connectix/Innotek and whatever as instrument. True, M$ wasn't/isn't able to produce itself a VPC Or do you really believe perhaps M$ is going to support OS/2 now? > so any commercial vendors are going to see a limited lifespan >for OS/2 products. > > > Anyway, I hope you guys will be able to fool M$ for once. You've my blessings. -- Groeten uit Gent, Kris **= Email 20 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 23:14:31 -0500 From: Nicky Morrow Subject: Re: eFDS-1.TXT Hannes Hromadka wrote: >>"There may be more than one home directory on a host system but a maximum >>of one per volume." >> >> > >To make use of more than one home dir requires the OS to be a multi >user OS. Will eCS 1.1 be a multi user OS ? > That is the plan. The version that is beginning to ship right now will not have multiuser capability. I can't say for sure when multiuser capability will be included but it is on the ToDo list. Some of the groundwork for multiuser has been done...but that is not a capability you add until it is totally lined out. Something to keep in mind: The folks working on eCS are working very very hard but we are not talking about IBM, MS or some other billion dollar company here. eCS has very limited funding which means projects that require funding can only be done as funds are available which means some of the needed improvements are coming slower than we would like. There are a lot of volunteers that are helping as well. I've been helping for 2 years as a volunteer. Not only do I not get payed anything but I buy my copy of eCS. The more folks buy eCS the faster we can get what we want. Cheers, Nick **= Email 21 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 23:28:17 -0500 From: Nicky Morrow Subject: Re: Newbie John Poltorak wrote: >>Let me ask you this: Are there particular cli utilities that you would >>like to see included by default in the next release of eCS (v2)? >> >> > >I take it you mean 'text mode' when use say cli... > Yes, that's correct. [snip] >>I also >>serve as the team leader for the eCSDevGroup Utilities Team. Including >>high quality cli utilities is on the agenda. We added some for eCS v1.1 >>but will be looking for more for v2. >> >> > >Most of CLI utils I use consist of Unix utils such sed, grep and all the >GNU utils, as well as WGET, but there are also a huge number which are >avilable that I only use from time to time such as CDRECORD. In addition, >I use a couple of really old programs from over ten years ago written by >Chris Laforet called RUNNING2 and SLAY which I've renamed as PS and KILL >because they are really useful in a Unix-like environment. > I'm not that familiar with the Unix utils but I'm willing to test some out while we are doing eCS v2 dev. I'm primarily thinking of small cli utilities that would make your life easier if they were an integrated part of eCS vs you having to install them once you install the os. If you could narrow down a list and then give me copies of each I'll see if I can get them included. Generally utilities like this come as a .exe which will go in \ecs\bin which is in the path and a .doc which is the doc file and will go in \ecs\doc\. It goes without says that anything included in the os has to have a license that is not going to cause problems. Cheers, Nick **= Email 22 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 23:39:19 -0500 From: Nicky Morrow Subject: Re: eFDS-1.TXT Andreas Buening wrote: >>Should that not apply to \programs as well? >> >> > >I'd say /programs as well as /opt is more a suggestion than >a requirement. > We aren't adding anything that makes installing your programs into \programs a requirement. We aren't hardcoding anything either. What we are doing is establishing locations and environment variables that make it easy to stay organized in a standard way. > If anybody wants to install his programs into >/funny_dir he should be free to do so. > Absolutely. >>> The \var directory shall contain the following directories: >>> >>> \var\cfg application configuration files that contain data not >>> specific to an individual user >>> \var\log .log files (no subdirectories allowed) >>> \var\temp temporary files (no subdirectories allowed) >>> >>> >>> >>>Unix also has /var. FHS requires config files to be in /etc not in /var. >>>FHS makes a difference between /tmp and /var/tmp. The latter is supposed >>>to be persistent (though I haven't ever seen a system where /tmp is >>>cleaned at startup). >>> >>> >>> >>This is definately a discussion item. For this release of eCS you will >>see only: >> >>\var\log >>\var\temp >> >>For the next version we could add: >> >>\var\cache >>\var\spool >> >>What do you think? >> >> > >Just keep compatible with the FHS if you use the same dir names, please. > \var\log, \var\cache and \var\spool are exactly the same name and serve the same purpose in eFDS-1 as they do in FHS. \var\temp would need to be changed to \var\tmp to get a close as we can concerning FHS...I'll go ahead and attempt to make that minor change if you like. Cheers, Nick **= Email 23 ==========================** Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 23:58:44 +1100 (edt) From: Andrew MacIntyre Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! On Fri, 18 Apr 2003, John Poltorak wrote: > but what other alternatives would they have to VAC++? OpenWatcom is the only alternative left. I think Scitech might be hoping to get some support business from it. The OW C compiler is potent, but the OW C++ compiler is apparently not up to current standards compliance... -- Andrew I MacIntyre "These thoughts are mine alone..." E-mail: andymac at bullseye.apana.org.au | Snail: PO Box 370 andymac at pcug.org.au | Belconnen ACT 2616 Web: http://www.andymac.org/ | Australia