From: UnixOS2 Archive To: "UnixOS2 Archive" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:03:20 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [UnixOS2_Archive] No. 100 ************************************************** Tuesday 15 April 2003 Number 100 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! : Kris Steenhaut 2 Re: Newbie : Arnstein.Prytz at jcu.edu.au 3 Re: eFDS-1.TXT : Arnstein.Prytz at jcu.edu.au 4 Re: Newbie : John Poltorak 5 Re: Newbie : Nicholas Sheppard 6 Re: Newbie : Lyn St George" 7 Re: Newbie : Steve Wendt **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 00:10:52 +0200 From: Kris Steenhaut Subject: Re: InnoTek GCC for OS/2! John Poltorak schreef: > I saw a very interesting announcement in os2news on os2bbs today. > > Check out:- > > http://www.innotek.de/products/gccos2/ > Ugh? You are prepared to put $ 25.000 out of your pocket? -- Groeten uit Gent, Kris **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:05:58 +1100 From: Arnstein.Prytz at jcu.edu.au Subject: Re: Newbie > The other major location which needs to be sorted out is the root > directory for users. I would suggest %BOOTDRIVE%\home. I disagree here. My own philosophy is to install the operating system only on the boot drive/partition. All program and user files are installed on other drives/partitions. That way I can do a clean install/format of a new OS version without affecting any of my program user files. Except for the desktop being fried, of course. At least all the files will still be there. I do not encourage anybody to pack everything into the ubiquitous c:\ partition. I do not know how many times people around here (using Windows) have been told by the IT support staff to re-install the OS after a reformat, but backup all your user files first. They rarely know where their user/program files are located on disk. If `everything' was on a separate partition at least re-installation would be a relative breeze. Our real problem is that we do not have a proper / directory to which we can add directories which live on other drives/partitions. eg /usr on e:\, /home on f:\, etc. TVFS is ok, but has its own limitations. Regards, Arnstein ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arnstein Prytz Arnstein.Prytz at jcu.edu.au School of Maths and Physics ph: 61-7-47815183 James Cook University fax: 61-7-47815880 Townsville, Queensland 4811, Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:32:31 +1100 From: Arnstein.Prytz at jcu.edu.au Subject: Re: eFDS-1.TXT Dear Nicky, > In the case of item 2, > the new eCS installer generates dozens of log files during installation > but it doesn't need subdirectories...it just needs good log file names. > Does Mailman really need to have a subdirectory or is that just the way > somebody decided to do it? I think that from a philosophical point it is MUCH tidier to keep programs as far away from each other as possible. Taking your argument further, there is no real need for subdirectories under /programs provided developers choose proper unique names for their programs and attendant files. They already need to in order for the PATH, LIBPATH, HELP, etc statements in config.sys to work. Under Unix/Linux the separation of programs into their respective bin, man, var, etc directories are typically because these can be located on separate partitions that allow read-only, read/write access. How much separation is a matter for discussion, but I see no need for preventing sub-directory creation under /var/logs /var/temp. Regards, Arnstein ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Arnstein Prytz Arnstein.Prytz at jcu.edu.au School of Maths and Physics ph: 61-7-47815183 James Cook University fax: 61-7-47815880 Townsville, Queensland 4811, Australia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:42:24 +0100 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: Newbie On Tue, Apr 15, 2003 at 09:00:41PM -0300, Nicky Morrow wrote: > > I suspect that UnixOS/2 can be generally self-contained > >although it would be nice if eCS used sensible default definitions for TMP > >and ETC such as %BOOTDRIVE%\tmp and %BOOTDRIVE%\etc. > > > > eFDS-1 does define the location and purpose of the tmp directory...it > even adds a standard config.sys statement (you will find this in eCS > v1.1). It is isn't %BOOTDRIVE%\tmp. Tell me why you want it this way. If TMP is not in the root directory, quite a lot of Unix programs will fail to access files in %TMP%. Both TMP and ETC are directly off the root in Unix, and I like them to be in the same place on OS/2. The usual location of ETC is only under \MPTN because it isn't required before MPTS is installed, although, if is defined beforehand, the existing location is accepted. It was originally placed under \TCPIP, before MPTS was developed so there has never been any real requirement for it to be 'owned' by MPTS. Since ETC is not exclusively used by MPTS or IBM supplied software there is no justification in putting it under \MPTN. > Regards, > > Nick -- John **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 10:54:41 +1000 (EST) From: Nicholas Sheppard Subject: Re: Newbie On Tue, 15 Apr 2003, Nicky Morrow wrote: > Concerning \etc. This directory is not included in the document nor is > it planned right now. The folks who have provided input to this point > do not like the idea of adding a \etc directory. Please explain to me > what the \etc is and/or would be used for and why it needs to be in a > particular location...and if not in the root what is an acceptable > alternate location based on eFDS-1. /etc in Unix is used for system-wide configuration files such as the password file, network configuration, default settings for users, and so on. As I read the eFDS draft, this would be equivalent to \var\cfg. Maybe there would be an argument for having \ecs\cfg or suchlike instead of \var\cfg, I'm not sure, but I don't see any need for it to be in the root directory. So long as everybody knows where to find the global configuration, it will work. >> I would also like >> to see a standard PASSWD and GROUP file as part of an OS/2 install. > I can add this to the eCS projects document. Can I get you to back up, > give me some history on this issue and give me a very basic definition > of what you want? For me, the essential requirement is that we have some standard way of implementing OS/2 applications that require multiple users, i.e. an API such as POSIX getpwent() etc. But eCS isn't a re-implementation of Unix and the underlying implementation of that doesn't have to do it the Unix way (with /etc/passwd and co.) Nicholas S. **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:06:49 +0000 From: "Lyn St George" Subject: Re: Newbie On Tue, 15 Apr 2003 23:00:37 -0300, Nicky Morrow wrote: >Arnstein.Prytz at jcu.edu.au wrote: > >>>The other major location which needs to be sorted out is the root >>>directory for users. I would suggest %BOOTDRIVE%\home. >>> >>> >> >>I disagree here. My own philosophy is to install the operating system only >>on the boot drive/partition. >> > > From eFDS-1: > > \home - intended for variable, shareable files > -- read-write > -- may be made available on the lan > -- does not need to be located on the host system > -- does not need to be on the boot volume > >The wording is currently such that the \home directory *can* be on the >boot volume but it can also be elsewhere. I agree with you that in most >cases the best system administration practice is to place the /home >directory in a volume besides the boot volume. What about this >definition? Is this enough to maintain order but allow flexibility? I have to agree with those who say that the boot drive should be *only* that and nothing else - for the very good reasons given. There really shouldn't be any need for debate on this one. >> All program and user files are installed on >>other drives/partitions. That way I can do a clean install/format of a new >>OS version without affecting any of my program user files. Except for the >>desktop being fried, of course. For a fried desktop (thankfully this has never happened to me), it's possible keep \ARCHIVES in a separate drive. Eg, my boot drive is d:\ and \ARCHIVES is kept in e:\. (though I've never had to nuke the boot drive and then try to use stuff from e:\ARCHIVES ....) >That is an issue that needs to be dealt with as well. If you read >eFDS-1 you'll actually find some guidance that is aimed at this issue. >We actually need additional guidance...feel free to think about it and >let me know. > >> At least all the files will still be there. >> >>I do not encourage anybody to pack everything into the ubiquitous c:\ >>partition. I do not know how many times people around here (using >>Windows) have been told by the IT support staff to re-install the OS after >>a reformat, but backup all your user files first. They rarely know where >>their user/program files are located on disk. >> > >In eFDS-1 there is only one allowable directory where all data files and >directories go: \home Could you clarify what is meant by 'allowable'? Is this a dictate enforced by some tool in ecs? And what is meant by 'data files and directories'? Eg, if you want to run Bind, then stuff must go into /var/named to match the standard. On Unix (Linux) it's also possible to have more than one '/home' directory - eg. a second hard disc would have /home2, a third might have /home3. And what about Apache and similar? Apache never goes into \home, but generally into \usr\apache or \usr\local\apache, and this includes the conf, certificate and key files. Basically, all my native OS/2 stuff goes into e:\, in various places, and UnixOS/2 stuff goes into f:\. The latter drive has the standard FHS compliant structure as found in the UnixOS/2 scheme. >If you backup \home then you back up all variable data. >\home\morrown\mozilla is where all my mozilla configuration data goes. >I certainly have other directories under \home\morrown to store >everything from picture files to text files. When I back up I back up >\home and forget it. What will happen if you run Mysql (or Postgresql), which default to putting their data into /usr/local/mysql/data? The source version of Mysql puts its data into /var/... , which a lot of people find unsatisfactory because /var is usually not very big. The point here is that \home is not the only place for data. In essence, \home is a place to put users where they are away from the rest of the system and where they can put their own personal data, but that's not to say that data cannot go elsewhere and frequently it should. > >Regards, > >Nick > > > > - Cheers Lyn St George +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + http://www.zolotek.net .. eCommerce hosting, consulting + http://www.os2docs.org .. some 'How To' stuff ... +---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 14:46:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Wendt Subject: Re: Newbie On Wed, 16 Apr 2003, John Poltorak wrote: > If TMP is not in the root directory, quite a lot of Unix programs will > fail to access files in %TMP%. I would say this is a bug in the respective program... > Both TMP and ETC are directly off the root in Unix, and I like them to be > in the same place on OS/2. I respect this choice, but I don't think it should be the default.