From: UnixOS2 Archive To: "UnixOS2 Archive" Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 04:53:05 EST-10EDT,10,-1,0,7200,3,-1,0,7200,3600 Subject: [UnixOS2_Archive] No. 37 ************************************************** Thursday 06 February 2003 Number 37 ************************************************** Subjects for today 1 Re: HOMEROOT : Thomas E. Dickey" 2 Re: HOMEROOT : Maynard" 3 Re: HOMEROOT : G Hudson 4 Re: HOMEROOT : G Hudson 5 HOMEROOT : John Poltorak 6 Re: HOMEROOT : Steve Wendt 7 Re: ecs : Maynard" 8 Re: HOMEROOT : Dave Saville" 9 Re: HOMEROOT : G Hudson 10 Re: Re: ecs : G Hudson 11 Re: HOMEROOT : Holger Veit 12 Re: HOMEROOT : John Poltorak 13 Re: HOMEROOT : Dave Saville" 14 Re: HOMEROOT : Thomas E. Dickey" 15 Re: HOMEROOT : Steve Wendt 16 Re: HOMEROOT : John Poltorak 17 Re: HOMEROOT : Steve Wendt 18 Re: HOMEROOT : John Poltorak 19 Re: HOMEROOT : Holger Veit 20 Re: Perl LWP Question : Hakan" **= Email 1 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 06:55:35 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas E. Dickey" Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, John Poltorak wrote: > I think we should decide on a 'homeroot' directory for UnixOS/2 where > user's directories would be kept... > > My preference would be for /home, although I doubt whether there is any > sort of standard. It looks to be /u on AIX. > > Does FHS have anythig to say on its location? most of the Linux distributions appear to use /home. (I notice this, because I move it everytime I install - for me it works better to have my shared home-directories in a place where the install doesn't assume). -- T.E.Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net **= Email 2 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 07:39:23 -0600 (CST) From: "Maynard" Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:01:21 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: >I'm using the term in >the sense that different Unix system seem to know the location of >'homeroot' without defining it. I could be missing something, but my suse7.3 system doesn't seem to know or care anything about 'homeroot'. We already acknowledged, didn't we, that AIX is "peculiar", and that slackware was the ux2 model? -- Maynard **= Email 3 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 08:56:07 -0600 From: G Hudson Subject: Re: HOMEROOT > Holger Veit wrote: > Summary: The shell asks /etc/passwd where a home directory is (rather the login process > the spawns the login shell), and then sets the HOME variable appropriately. If you lack > a login process, e.g. on OS/2, then have the runtime system do this for you. > > Anything else is unportable hack, and too restrictive to be useful. eComStation 1.1 will have a modified directory structure and additional environment setting that might help. Add: SET HOME=x:\home\ Add: SET OS=ecs Add: SET OSDIR=x:\ecs Add: SET PROGRAMS=x:\programs Add: SET LOGFILES=x:\var\log Add: SET TMP=x:\var\temp Add: SET TEMP=x:\var\temp Add: SET TMPDIR=x:\var\temp ------ additional tips from the planning document----------- * indicates new or updated item. x = NOTE: This document assumes MCP2r as the reference system, not eCS v1. CONFIG.SYS: NOTE: Recommend all additions that don't require a specific location be put at the top of the file. This will keep the old head users happy by giving them good visibily on what specific changes eCS is making. Putting the changes together at the top of the file also ensures these eCS specific changes maintain the same relative position in the file for the long term. Items needed to get ready for the new file and directory structure: (Aids in preparing for multi-user capability) Add: SET OS=ecs Add: SET OSDIR=x:\ecs Add: SET HOME=x:\home\ Add: SET PROGRAMS=x:\programs Add: SET LOGFILES=x:\var\log Add: SET TMP=x:\var\temp Add: SET TEMP=x:\var\temp Add: SET TMPDIR=x:\var\temp Change: SET USER_INI=x:\home\\cfg\os2.ini Notes: - Programs/utilities that create log files should check to see if LOGFILES is set and use it if it is. If LOGFILES is not set or the directory doesn't exist then log files should not be created. Log file names should follow this example: .log - estyler.log - Programs/utilities that use ini files to store configuration information should check SET USER_INI= and use this directory to store ini files. Ini files should follow this example: .ini - estyler.ini. An example of the location: SET USER_INI=x:\home\stjohnb\cfg\os2.ini eStyler would then locate estyler.ini as such: x:\home\stjohnb\cfg\estyler.ini - Programs/utilities should always check to see if their ini exists and if it doesn't exist then a new one with reasonable defaults should be created. - Programs/utilities should not make modifications to CONFIG.SYS with the exception of adding required device drivers nor should they use os2.ini to store settings. Other: Add: AUTOFAIL=YES Add: SUPPRESSPOPUPS=x Add: SET UNZIPOPT=-C Add: SET DIRCMD=/O:GN/V Note: (see ftp.ecomstation.com/edg/eFDS for proposed directory structure) Add: x:\ecs\dll to LIBPATH Add: x:\ecs\bin to SET PATH Add: x:\ecs\help to SET HELP Add: x:\ecs\book to SET BOOKSHELF Note:x:\ecs\system will not be in the path. Move utilities that need to be in the path to bin. MCP2r/eCSv1 Directory Structure changes: (to reduce amount of root dirs) Move: x:\desktop to x:\home\\desktop Move: x:\download to x:\home\\download Move: x:\upload to x:\home\\upload Move: x:\ECSUPDT to x:\ecs\system\service Move: contents of x:\BOOKS to x:\os2\book and kill x:\books Note: Others can be moved or eliminated in the future...these are just the low hanging fruit. Layout: Change: "home" desktop folder to reflect or "user" if userid not set. Guidelines: "userid" guidelines: - User IDs and group IDs cannot begin with IBM, SYS, or SQL. - User IDs and group IDs cannot have the following values: -- USERS -- GUESTS -- ADMINS -- PUBLIC -- LOCAL -- SYSASID - The allowable character set includes the following: -- A to Z -- 0 to 9 -- # -- at -- $ - User IDs and group IDs can be from 1 to 8 bytes. Add: " \ecs ". This directory should be created by the installer and should be considered the directory for the installation of ecs operating system files. Add: " \home ". Establishing this directory should be considered the first step in multi-user capability. The installer should prompt the user for a user name, and ask which drive they'd like \home to be put on, and then create \home\ on the drive. Add: " \programs ". This directory should be created by the installer and should be considered the default directory for the installation of applications. Add: " \var ". This directory should be created by the installer and should be considered the default directory for the log files and temp files directories. **= Email 4 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 10:09:25 -0600 From: G Hudson Subject: Re: HOMEROOT > John Poltorak wrote: > > Add: SET TMP=x:\var\temp > > Add: SET TEMP=x:\var\temp > > Add: SET TMPDIR=x:\var\temp > > Personally I would relocate %ETC% to \etc. It just does not belong under > \mptn. This is how I always set things up on my own systems. \etc at the root of the boot drive or under \var? What types of things are stored in today \etc? What additional thingsmight be stored in the future with UnixOS2? **= Email 5 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:51:56 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: HOMEROOT I think we should decide on a 'homeroot' directory for UnixOS/2 where user's directories would be kept... My preference would be for /home, although I doubt whether there is any sort of standard. It looks to be /u on AIX. Does FHS have anythig to say on its location? -- John **= Email 6 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 11:01:16 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Wendt Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, John Poltorak wrote: > the sense that different Unix system seem to know the location of > 'homeroot' without defining it. Whilst the term of variable 'homeroot' may > not exist, I think everyone knows what I mean. Is there a correct Unix > term for the root directory for all users' home directories? > > In the examples you quote, the system does know that 'homeroot' is either > /u, /home or /export. How does it know where it is? The location must be > determined somehow. $HOME is set for the current user; for other users ~username works on many systems (definitely on Linux, maybe not on all others). **= Email 7 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 11:27:12 -0600 (CST) From: "Maynard" Subject: Re: ecs On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 08:56:07 -0600, G Hudson wrote: >eComStation 1.1 will have a modified directory structure and additional >environment setting that might help. > >Add: SET HOME=x:\home\ >Add: SET OS=ecs >Add: SET OSDIR=x:\ecs >Add: SET PROGRAMS=x:\programs >Add: SET LOGFILES=x:\var\log >Add: SET TMP=x:\var\temp >Add: SET TEMP=x:\var\temp >Add: SET TMPDIR=x:\var\temp > > >x = It would be very unfortunate for them, and unacceptable for me, to put programs, logs, swapper, or TMP into the OS_boot partition. -- Maynard **= Email 8 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 11:30:16 +0000 (GMT) From: "Dave Saville" Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:51:56 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: >I think we should decide on a 'homeroot' directory for UnixOS/2 where >user's directories would be kept... > >My preference would be for /home, although I doubt whether there is any >sort of standard. It looks to be /u on AIX. Lots of systems have the physical path as /export/home with a soft link to it of /home. I would be happy with just /home. -- Regards Dave Saville **= Email 9 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:23:31 -0600 From: G Hudson Subject: Re: HOMEROOT > Holger Veit wrote: > What does etc have to do under /var? I am just asking a question. I don't know where is the best location. We are trying to reduce the number of directories at root and better organize things. If \etc needs to be at root that's fine. > There is no difference between Unix and UnixOS2 about > the kind of data to be stored in /etc. I have know idea. I know very little Unix. **= Email 10 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 12:30:05 -0600 From: G Hudson Subject: Re: Re: ecs > Maynard wrote: > It would be very unfortunate for them, and unacceptable for me, to put > programs, logs, swapper, or TMP into the OS_boot partition. The boot partition is the default. It is a environment setting just like it was in the past in OS/2. You can change it to anywhere you like. **= Email 11 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 12:54:01 +0100 From: Holger Veit Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 11:30:16AM +0000, Dave Saville wrote: > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:51:56 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: > > >I think we should decide on a 'homeroot' directory for UnixOS/2 where > >user's directories would be kept... > > > >My preference would be for /home, although I doubt whether there is any > >sort of standard. It looks to be /u on AIX. > > Lots of systems have the physical path as /export/home with a soft > link to it of /home. I would be happy with just /home. Effectively, I don't really understand why one wants to add a definition for 'homeroot' at all. The reason is that the /etc/passwd file decides where the home directory of a user is located. This might be /home/username or /export/username or /u/username, or anywhere else where the system manager thinks they should be located. You might also remember the old times of UNIX: the directory tree /usr was originally the file system where user accounts had their home directory (read "usr" literally). Since this was typically on a large disk, people later chose to put additional software, for space reasons, on this disk as well, which led to the /usr/bin and /usr/lib and other directories. Several Unix vendors then later considered /usr a bad idea, because they wanted to export this /usr/{bin,lib} to diskless clients as well, and therefore exported this usually as read-only, which is a bad idea with home directories[1]. Thus they invented /home or /u, or /export/home as alternatives, the last one being a Sun convention as anything for diskless clients was supposedly mounted under /export (/export/root, /export/swap). Summary: The shell asks /etc/passwd where a home directory is (rather the login process the spawns the login shell), and then sets the HOME variable appropriately. If you lack a login process, e.g. on OS/2, then have the runtime system do this for you. Anything else is unportable hack, and too restrictive to be useful. Holger [1] Actually, any BOFH (bastard operator from hell) will regard this a very good idea indeed ;-) -- Please update your tables to my new e-mail address: holger.veit$ais.fhg.de (replace the '$' with ' at ' -- spam-protection) **= Email 12 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:01:21 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 12:54:01PM +0100, Holger Veit wrote: > On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 11:30:16AM +0000, Dave Saville wrote: > > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 10:51:56 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: > > > > >I think we should decide on a 'homeroot' directory for UnixOS/2 where > > >user's directories would be kept... > > > > > >My preference would be for /home, although I doubt whether there is any > > >sort of standard. It looks to be /u on AIX. > > > > Lots of systems have the physical path as /export/home with a soft > > link to it of /home. I would be happy with just /home. > > Effectively, I don't really understand why one wants to add a definition > for 'homeroot' at all. I don't really want to add such a definition at all, I'm using the term in the sense that different Unix system seem to know the location of 'homeroot' without defining it. Whilst the term of variable 'homeroot' may not exist, I think everyone knows what I mean. Is there a correct Unix term for the root directory for all users' home directories? In the examples you quote, the system does know that 'homeroot' is either /u, /home or /export. How does it know where it is? The location must be determined somehow. > The reason is that the /etc/passwd file decides > where the home directory of a user is located. This might be /home/username > or /export/username or /u/username, or anywhere else where the system manager > thinks they should be located. You might also remember the old times of UNIX: > the directory tree /usr was originally the file system where user accounts had > their home directory (read "usr" literally). Since this was typically on a large > disk, people later chose to put additional software, for space reasons, on this > disk as well, which led to the /usr/bin and /usr/lib and other directories. > > Several Unix vendors then later considered /usr a bad idea, because they wanted > to export this /usr/{bin,lib} to diskless clients as well, and therefore > exported this usually as read-only, which is a bad idea with home directories[1]. > Thus they invented /home or /u, or /export/home as alternatives, the last one being > a Sun convention as anything for diskless clients was supposedly mounted under /export > (/export/root, /export/swap). > > Summary: The shell asks /etc/passwd where a home directory is (rather the login process > the spawns the login shell), and then sets the HOME variable appropriately. If you lack > a login process, e.g. on OS/2, then have the runtime system do this for you. When you add a new user, doesn't he get a default home directory is a specific location? How is that loation determined? > Holger > > [1] Actually, any BOFH (bastard operator from hell) will regard this a very good > idea indeed ;-) > > -- > Please update your tables to my new e-mail address: > holger.veit$ais.fhg.de (replace the '$' with ' at ' -- spam-protection) > -- John **= Email 13 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 14:29:49 +0000 (GMT) From: "Dave Saville" Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 13:01:21 +0000, John Poltorak wrote: >I don't really want to add such a definition at all, I'm using the term in >the sense that different Unix system seem to know the location of >'homeroot' without defining it. Whilst the term of variable 'homeroot' may >not exist, I think everyone knows what I mean. Is there a correct Unix >term for the root directory for all users' home directories? > >In the examples you quote, the system does know that 'homeroot' is either >/u, /home or /export. How does it know where it is? The location must be >determined somehow. Only because the systems administrator took a decision to put the home directories *somewhere*. Whether that is based on history or his personal whim. >> The reason is that the /etc/passwd file decides >> where the home directory of a user is located. This might be /home/username >> or /export/username or /u/username, or anywhere else where the system manager >> thinks they should be located. You might also remember the old times of UNIX: >> the directory tree /usr was originally the file system where user accounts had >> their home directory (read "usr" literally). Since this was typically on a large >> disk, people later chose to put additional software, for space reasons, on this >> disk as well, which led to the /usr/bin and /usr/lib and other directories. >When you add a new user, doesn't he get a default home directory is a >specific location? How is that loation determined? By what the sys admin supplies via whatever tool he uses to add a new user. It could be as simple as adding a line to /etc/passwd. In which case he would have to specify it *and* set it up, together with *that* systems setup scripts for whatever shell(s) the user was expected to use - the default shell also being specified in /etc/passwd. Don't make any assumptions about *nix from AIX - its a very strange animal :-) -- Regards Dave Saville **= Email 14 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:32:17 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas E. Dickey" Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Steve Wendt wrote: > On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, John Poltorak wrote: > > > the sense that different Unix system seem to know the location of > > 'homeroot' without defining it. Whilst the term of variable 'homeroot' may > > not exist, I think everyone knows what I mean. Is there a correct Unix > > term for the root directory for all users' home directories? > > > > In the examples you quote, the system does know that 'homeroot' is either > > /u, /home or /export. How does it know where it is? The location must be > > determined somehow. > > $HOME is set for the current user; for other users ~username works on many > systems (definitely on Linux, maybe not on all others). "~" expansion is a shell feature (csh/tcsh, ksh and its clones). -- T.E.Dickey http://invisible-island.net ftp://invisible-island.net **= Email 15 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 14:42:43 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Wendt Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, 7 Feb 2003, Thomas E. Dickey wrote: > > $HOME is set for the current user; for other users ~username works on many > > systems (definitely on Linux, maybe not on all others). > > "~" expansion is a shell feature (csh/tcsh, ksh and its clones). Interesting... it works with bash, which shells don't support it? **= Email 16 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 15:03:40 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 08:56:07AM -0600, G Hudson wrote: > > > Holger Veit wrote: > > Summary: The shell asks /etc/passwd where a home directory is (rather the login process > > the spawns the login shell), and then sets the HOME variable appropriately. If you lack > > a login process, e.g. on OS/2, then have the runtime system do this for you. > > > > Anything else is unportable hack, and too restrictive to be useful. > > eComStation 1.1 will have a modified directory structure and additional > environment setting that might help. > > Add: SET HOME=x:\home\ > Add: SET OS=ecs > Add: SET OSDIR=x:\ecs > Add: SET PROGRAMS=x:\programs > Add: SET LOGFILES=x:\var\log > Add: SET TMP=x:\var\temp > Add: SET TEMP=x:\var\temp > Add: SET TMPDIR=x:\var\temp Personally I would relocate %ETC% to \etc. It just does not belong under \mptn. This is how I always set things up on my own systems. -- John **= Email 17 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:07:27 -0800 (PST) From: Steve Wendt Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Sat, 8 Feb 2003, Stefan Neis wrote: > BTW, while talking about shell features: Is there a way to page through > all commands in command history starting with a specific combination of > letters? In cmd.exe I can enter say "less" and page through all my old > commands starting with "less" via repeatedly pressing . With e.g. > bash I currently am either using "!less" which will repeat exactly the > last command (but I might want to get at the one before it), or I'm > paging through hundreds off commands (by arrow keys) to find the right > one. (Or I grep a command history file and use Cut&Paste, but that's > still way to complicated for my simple mind). I'm interested in this too - if you hear something from elsewhere, please pass it on. ;) **= Email 18 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 16:22:31 +0000 From: John Poltorak Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 10:09:25AM -0600, G Hudson wrote: > > > > John Poltorak wrote: > > > Add: SET TMP=x:\var\temp > > > Add: SET TEMP=x:\var\temp > > > Add: SET TMPDIR=x:\var\temp > > > > Personally I would relocate %ETC% to \etc. It just does not belong under > > \mptn. This is how I always set things up on my own systems. > > \etc at the root of the boot drive Yes. > What types of things are stored in today \etc? \etc is just my relocation of IBM's default location for %ETC%. There is no real need for it to be under \mptn. If %ETC% is already set before MPTS is installed the existing location is used. I would suggest setting it whilst installing OS/2. > What additional thingsmight be stored in the future with UnixOS2? Whatever you are likely to find in a standard Unix system should be considered as a suitable environment variable for UnixOS/2. -- John **= Email 19 ==========================** Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 17:19:47 +0100 From: Holger Veit Subject: Re: HOMEROOT On Fri, Feb 07, 2003 at 10:09:25AM -0600, G Hudson wrote: > > > > John Poltorak wrote: > > > Add: SET TMP=x:\var\temp > > > Add: SET TEMP=x:\var\temp > > > Add: SET TMPDIR=x:\var\temp > > > > Personally I would relocate %ETC% to \etc. It just does not belong under > > \mptn. This is how I always set things up on my own systems. > > \etc at the root of the boot drive or under \var? What does etc have to do under /var? /var is the scratch file system for temporary data which can be trashed eventually without destroying OS consistency. /etc contains essential files to be read during bootup and normal operation. The system is not guaranteed properly without some files in etc. /etc belongs to the tree spanned by UNIXROOT, whereever this is (may be the boot drive, or another drive, even a TVFS drive). > What types of things are stored in today \etc? Anything that is necessary to keep the system alive which does not fall into a category "binary", "library", "documentation". Namely: configuration files of all kind. > What additional thingsmight be stored in the future with UnixOS2? There is no difference between Unix and UnixOS2 about the kind of data to be stored in /etc. Holger -- Please update your tables to my new e-mail address: holger.veit$ais.fhg.de (replace the '$' with ' at ' -- spam-protection) **= Email 20 ==========================** Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2003 17:54:59 -0500 (EST) From: "Hakan" Subject: Re: Perl LWP Question I am pleased to announce that, thanks to the help from several members in this group, I got the perl script swish-e uses up and running and that I am able to index website content! I did however, encounter a couple of error messages compiling the perl modules I needed to assemble. For instance making digest-md5-2.23 resulted in: [D:\temp\digest-md5-2.23]perl makefile.pl Testing alignment requirements for U32... LINK386 : warning L4071: application type not specified; assuming WINDOWCOMPAT Error reading "./u32align.exe": No such file or directory at makefile.pl line 11 5. SYS1041: The name ÇÇ is not recognized as an internal or external command, operable program or batch file. Test program exit status was 255 Checking if your kit is complete... Looks good Writing Makefile for Digest::MD5 The error message above is exact, including the c cedillas. Making and testing libwww-perl-5.69 resulted in numerous error messages and failed tests but I decided to forge ahead anyway. Perhaps a perl expert would not mind offering his/her opinion on these two modules and the reasons for the failures? TIA. Hakan On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 00:50:39 -0500, Henry Sobotka wrote: >If you don't have LWP/UserAgent.PM in your perl/lib tree, presumably >that's because you haven't installed it. You can get it from >http://www.cpan.org/modules/by-module/LWP/. After downloading and >unpacking, have a look at Makefile.PL for anything that might need >adjusting, then run "perl Makefile.PL" to generate makefiles, followed >by "make", "make test" and "make install". > >Most Perl add-on modules check for prerequisites, so you may have to go >through the above routine with them first. > >h~ > >